ᐅ House without a garage and basement? Converting the attic? Vent pipe?
Created on: 24 Jun 2015 19:59
G
Grym
We have been considering the following:
If we want to build without a basement and without a garage, preferably with just a carport, does it make sense – and what would the cost difference be – to convert the attic instead?
We plan to build a structure approximately 10.50 meters x 8.50 meters (34.4 ft x 27.9 ft) along the street. On top, a gable roof with a 45-degree pitch (alternatively: only 40 degrees), and the knee wall on the first floor should be about 1.40 meters (4.6 ft) high. At the highest point, the interior height would probably be around 2.80 meters (9.2 ft).
Instead of insulating the top floor ceiling, we would insulate the roof. For cost reasons, the top floor ceiling would remain a wooden beam construction (I assume?). The attic would be an unheated secondary space but equipped with at least one ventilation opening.
The staircase up to the attic should be reasonably comfortable. What is the cost of a standard residential staircase? We might simply extend the living area staircase to the attic if the additional cost is not too high.
In the medium term, we want a wood-and-metal design carport for two cars next to the house, with bike racks in the rear area (which in my opinion looks much better than a concrete and steel garage box). The bikes would be weather-protected but quickly accessible. Necessary garden tools will be stored in the utility room; unnecessary items, seasonal goods, heirlooms, etc., will go into the attic (within the thermal envelope and ventilated by a controlled residential ventilation system). Likewise, winter storage of the garden chairs would be in the attic; in summer, they will remain outside permanently.
It is also unclear whether and what kind of equipment could be located in the utility room (ground or air source heat pump, controlled residential ventilation system, hot water hygiene storage tank, etc.).
Another question is what the cost impact would be for this kind of attic conversion (planned from the start and carried out by the general contractor) compared to the standard option (insulating the top floor ceiling, insulated pull-down stairs to the unheated attic space).
If we want to build without a basement and without a garage, preferably with just a carport, does it make sense – and what would the cost difference be – to convert the attic instead?
We plan to build a structure approximately 10.50 meters x 8.50 meters (34.4 ft x 27.9 ft) along the street. On top, a gable roof with a 45-degree pitch (alternatively: only 40 degrees), and the knee wall on the first floor should be about 1.40 meters (4.6 ft) high. At the highest point, the interior height would probably be around 2.80 meters (9.2 ft).
Instead of insulating the top floor ceiling, we would insulate the roof. For cost reasons, the top floor ceiling would remain a wooden beam construction (I assume?). The attic would be an unheated secondary space but equipped with at least one ventilation opening.
The staircase up to the attic should be reasonably comfortable. What is the cost of a standard residential staircase? We might simply extend the living area staircase to the attic if the additional cost is not too high.
In the medium term, we want a wood-and-metal design carport for two cars next to the house, with bike racks in the rear area (which in my opinion looks much better than a concrete and steel garage box). The bikes would be weather-protected but quickly accessible. Necessary garden tools will be stored in the utility room; unnecessary items, seasonal goods, heirlooms, etc., will go into the attic (within the thermal envelope and ventilated by a controlled residential ventilation system). Likewise, winter storage of the garden chairs would be in the attic; in summer, they will remain outside permanently.
It is also unclear whether and what kind of equipment could be located in the utility room (ground or air source heat pump, controlled residential ventilation system, hot water hygiene storage tank, etc.).
Another question is what the cost impact would be for this kind of attic conversion (planned from the start and carried out by the general contractor) compared to the standard option (insulating the top floor ceiling, insulated pull-down stairs to the unheated attic space).
I’m currently reading on the green forum, where it’s mentioned that such a ventilation unit costs around 25,000 EUR. That’s useful information. Whether it’s 22,000 EUR or 28,000 EUR, 25,000 EUR is a good reference point and a solid reason for us to avoid something like that.
Garden furniture and the table at my parents’ house are also stored in the basement at the end of the season and brought out again at the start of the season. Whether I carry them up and down twice a year or up and down two flights of stairs twice a year… that’s why I want a proper staircase to the attic if possible. But of course, it depends on the cost.
Today, I spent some time looking into garages, yes. Then I started wondering—could we do without one? At least for the cars, the answer is definitely yes. But what about extra storage space? What do families of four do with their 90–100 sqm (approx. 970–1,076 sq ft) new-build apartments and tiny basement storage rooms? These apartments sell like hotcakes here at house prices (including the plot).
How many garden tools do I really need? I don’t want to grow anything or have any high-maintenance plants. I’m not a gardening expert, but I believe there can be a nice, low-maintenance garden. A lawnmower? Yes, a cute little robotic one, please.
And now back to the ventilation unit. The general contractor I would go to has some designs online, including some with ventilation units. But the common opinion is that ventilation units are rubbish. So why should I blindly trust the general contractor, listen to what they say, and so on?
Garden furniture and the table at my parents’ house are also stored in the basement at the end of the season and brought out again at the start of the season. Whether I carry them up and down twice a year or up and down two flights of stairs twice a year… that’s why I want a proper staircase to the attic if possible. But of course, it depends on the cost.
Today, I spent some time looking into garages, yes. Then I started wondering—could we do without one? At least for the cars, the answer is definitely yes. But what about extra storage space? What do families of four do with their 90–100 sqm (approx. 970–1,076 sq ft) new-build apartments and tiny basement storage rooms? These apartments sell like hotcakes here at house prices (including the plot).
How many garden tools do I really need? I don’t want to grow anything or have any high-maintenance plants. I’m not a gardening expert, but I believe there can be a nice, low-maintenance garden. A lawnmower? Yes, a cute little robotic one, please.
And now back to the ventilation unit. The general contractor I would go to has some designs online, including some with ventilation units. But the common opinion is that ventilation units are rubbish. So why should I blindly trust the general contractor, listen to what they say, and so on?
No idea why you’re talking about nipple growths... it doesn’t make sense to me.
What I gathered from your post:
1) Nipple growths are expensive
2) many 90 sqm (970 sq ft) apartments are being sold in Saxony
3) your parents store their garden furniture
4) you don’t want to become a gardener (but still have to mow the lawn, trim the hedge, and sometimes pump up the bike tires — it would look odd at the stylish bar with flat tires)
What I still don’t know:
1) What are your needs?
2) What can / want / are you allowed to build at all?!
What I gathered from your post:
1) Nipple growths are expensive
2) many 90 sqm (970 sq ft) apartments are being sold in Saxony
3) your parents store their garden furniture
4) you don’t want to become a gardener (but still have to mow the lawn, trim the hedge, and sometimes pump up the bike tires — it would look odd at the stylish bar with flat tires)
What I still don’t know:
1) What are your needs?
2) What can / want / are you allowed to build at all?!
@BeHaElJa:
Budget: Well, there isn’t really a fixed budget. In the end, we (hopefully) won’t push any theoretical maximum budget to the limit. The price-to-performance ratio needs to be right. If such a fancy thing costs 25,000 EUR, I won’t install it, even if we could afford it budget-wise. It’s like the car I drive—I don’t drive the most expensive one I can afford.
If the house with all extras ends up under 200k, that would be good. If we get something much better for 205k, then it will be 205k. If it comes down to 185k, we’re happy with that too. So far, we have an offer for 180k with 134 sqm (1,443 sq ft) of living space, 2 full floors, and some extras we want, but—for example—a heat pump (preferably geothermal) instead of gas heating isn’t included yet. If it ends up being 230k for a satisfactory solution, then it will be 230k. Financing isn’t an issue. But it still needs to be paid off, and I’d rather finish paying it off by age 39 than 42 or 45.
Plot: 600 sqm (6,458 sq ft), 2 full floors or fewer, including a bungalow. Floor area ratio 0.4. Gable roof, hip roof, or pyramid roof. Plot orientation: south-southwest; entrance accordingly north-northeast. Almost square. No building line or setback boundary — just a required 3-meter (10 ft) clearance zone.
Requirements: kitchen, living room, bathroom, 2 kids’ rooms, hallway, standard utility room
Nice-to-have / depends on price: guest WC, kids’ bathroom, walk-in closet, 3rd kids’ room/initially a study, workspace corner in the living area, open-plan living/dining/kitchen/work area, finished attic, carport/garage, basement within the thermal envelope with heating, ventilation, insulation, full height (excluded due to cost; standard basement not desired), large utility room
Visually, I also like a townhouse style better, but if a gable-roof house with an attic offers significantly more usable space for the same money, then I would prefer the gable-roof house.
And this split between requirements and nice-to-have/dependent-on-price applies to technical details as well. A gas heating system also heats, but a geothermal heat pump with cooling function and partial supply from our own photovoltaic system is definitely appealing. Electric shutters controlled by a simple switch work fine, but a KNX system that I can program myself is definitely a plus, etc. Or why not combine blinds with shutters? Well, as I said, in the end it’s about weighing comfort benefits against price. I can also just take clothes out of the closet, so a walk-in closet is not really necessary. What’s necessary is a dry, mold-free, heated living and sleeping space—nothing more.
Budget: Well, there isn’t really a fixed budget. In the end, we (hopefully) won’t push any theoretical maximum budget to the limit. The price-to-performance ratio needs to be right. If such a fancy thing costs 25,000 EUR, I won’t install it, even if we could afford it budget-wise. It’s like the car I drive—I don’t drive the most expensive one I can afford.
If the house with all extras ends up under 200k, that would be good. If we get something much better for 205k, then it will be 205k. If it comes down to 185k, we’re happy with that too. So far, we have an offer for 180k with 134 sqm (1,443 sq ft) of living space, 2 full floors, and some extras we want, but—for example—a heat pump (preferably geothermal) instead of gas heating isn’t included yet. If it ends up being 230k for a satisfactory solution, then it will be 230k. Financing isn’t an issue. But it still needs to be paid off, and I’d rather finish paying it off by age 39 than 42 or 45.
Plot: 600 sqm (6,458 sq ft), 2 full floors or fewer, including a bungalow. Floor area ratio 0.4. Gable roof, hip roof, or pyramid roof. Plot orientation: south-southwest; entrance accordingly north-northeast. Almost square. No building line or setback boundary — just a required 3-meter (10 ft) clearance zone.
Requirements: kitchen, living room, bathroom, 2 kids’ rooms, hallway, standard utility room
Nice-to-have / depends on price: guest WC, kids’ bathroom, walk-in closet, 3rd kids’ room/initially a study, workspace corner in the living area, open-plan living/dining/kitchen/work area, finished attic, carport/garage, basement within the thermal envelope with heating, ventilation, insulation, full height (excluded due to cost; standard basement not desired), large utility room
Visually, I also like a townhouse style better, but if a gable-roof house with an attic offers significantly more usable space for the same money, then I would prefer the gable-roof house.
And this split between requirements and nice-to-have/dependent-on-price applies to technical details as well. A gas heating system also heats, but a geothermal heat pump with cooling function and partial supply from our own photovoltaic system is definitely appealing. Electric shutters controlled by a simple switch work fine, but a KNX system that I can program myself is definitely a plus, etc. Or why not combine blinds with shutters? Well, as I said, in the end it’s about weighing comfort benefits against price. I can also just take clothes out of the closet, so a walk-in closet is not really necessary. What’s necessary is a dry, mold-free, heated living and sleeping space—nothing more.
Ah... You keep wavering between comfort and a cheap solution, so you don’t really know what you want. But not knowing what you want while thinking you know better is not a good combination. Unfortunately, you also have no idea at all... and the help you actually need won’t be found in a forum like this.
If they are serious after all:
Budget up to €230,000 (approx. $250,000)
Room layout: Kitchen (9m² / 97ft²), Living room (24m² / 258ft²), Dining room (14m² / 150ft²), Utility room (13m² / 140ft²), Bedroom (13m² / 140ft²), 3 Children’s rooms (12m² / 129ft² each), 2 Bathrooms (9m² / 97ft² and 6m² / 65ft²), 1 WC (2m² / 22ft²) → 126m² (1356ft²) + 20% for corridors and others → 150m² (1615ft²) * €1,500/m² (approx. $139/sqft) → €225,000 (approx. $245,000) just for the house, excluding additional construction costs.
You might be able to get it somewhat cheaper—probably depends on the specific offers.
There are plenty of floor plans for urban villas between 130 and 150m² (1400 and 1600ft²) – have a look and see if anything appeals to you. I would only design your own if you really enjoy it or can’t find anything suitable. Urban villas might not be very exciting architecturally, but I believe they meet the needs of a family quite well and are probably not too demanding structurally (although I’m taking a bit of a guess with that statement).
Budget up to €230,000 (approx. $250,000)
Room layout: Kitchen (9m² / 97ft²), Living room (24m² / 258ft²), Dining room (14m² / 150ft²), Utility room (13m² / 140ft²), Bedroom (13m² / 140ft²), 3 Children’s rooms (12m² / 129ft² each), 2 Bathrooms (9m² / 97ft² and 6m² / 65ft²), 1 WC (2m² / 22ft²) → 126m² (1356ft²) + 20% for corridors and others → 150m² (1615ft²) * €1,500/m² (approx. $139/sqft) → €225,000 (approx. $245,000) just for the house, excluding additional construction costs.
You might be able to get it somewhat cheaper—probably depends on the specific offers.
There are plenty of floor plans for urban villas between 130 and 150m² (1400 and 1600ft²) – have a look and see if anything appeals to you. I would only design your own if you really enjoy it or can’t find anything suitable. Urban villas might not be very exciting architecturally, but I believe they meet the needs of a family quite well and are probably not too demanding structurally (although I’m taking a bit of a guess with that statement).
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