Hello everyone,
We just had a conversation with the company responsible for our heating and plumbing installation.
First of all – we are building a large single-family house with a basement, two full floors, and a hipped roof with a 22° (22 degrees) pitch. Wall construction is 17.5 cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick, insulation with mineral wool, plus a brick façade.
We are building according to the 2012 Energy Saving Ordinance (EnEV 2012) and are not aiming to achieve a higher standard.
Our original plan was:
- Gas heating with underfloor heating on all levels, no wall-mounted radiators, and a central mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
Now, after the discussion, I’m totally confused. The company recommends:
- Heating via an air-to-air heat pump, solar thermal for hot water, plus gas to support hot water
- Underfloor heating only on the ground floor and first floor, excluding children’s rooms and bedrooms (to avoid overheating during sleep), with the rest heated by wall-mounted radiators on a second heating circuit
- No mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery due to noise issues
I can understand reconsidering the mechanical ventilation system because of potential constant noise and airflow, so we might want to think that over.
But I’ve never heard of combining a heat pump, gas, and solar thermal in one system!
Solar thermal is said to be uneconomical anyway, especially with a roof pitch of only 22° (22 degrees), right? We also don’t have a direct south-facing roof orientation. Does anyone have links or information about the economic viability?
Our main priorities are comfort; cost and economic efficiency are not the primary focus, but I don’t want to end up building something completely pointless either. The problem is, we need some sort of renewable energy source to comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance. The thermal protection report is not available yet, but I definitely need some concrete information for the next meeting. It would be great if someone could help!
We just had a conversation with the company responsible for our heating and plumbing installation.
First of all – we are building a large single-family house with a basement, two full floors, and a hipped roof with a 22° (22 degrees) pitch. Wall construction is 17.5 cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick, insulation with mineral wool, plus a brick façade.
We are building according to the 2012 Energy Saving Ordinance (EnEV 2012) and are not aiming to achieve a higher standard.
Our original plan was:
- Gas heating with underfloor heating on all levels, no wall-mounted radiators, and a central mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
Now, after the discussion, I’m totally confused. The company recommends:
- Heating via an air-to-air heat pump, solar thermal for hot water, plus gas to support hot water
- Underfloor heating only on the ground floor and first floor, excluding children’s rooms and bedrooms (to avoid overheating during sleep), with the rest heated by wall-mounted radiators on a second heating circuit
- No mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery due to noise issues
I can understand reconsidering the mechanical ventilation system because of potential constant noise and airflow, so we might want to think that over.
But I’ve never heard of combining a heat pump, gas, and solar thermal in one system!
Solar thermal is said to be uneconomical anyway, especially with a roof pitch of only 22° (22 degrees), right? We also don’t have a direct south-facing roof orientation. Does anyone have links or information about the economic viability?
Our main priorities are comfort; cost and economic efficiency are not the primary focus, but I don’t want to end up building something completely pointless either. The problem is, we need some sort of renewable energy source to comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance. The thermal protection report is not available yet, but I definitely need some concrete information for the next meeting. It would be great if someone could help!
D
DerBjoern19 May 2015 13:22Panama17 schrieb:
@Bauexperte - I need to ask again. Why do you think that 22 degrees Celsius (72°F) in a new build feels different or warmer than 24 degrees Celsius (75°F) with underfloor heating and tiles heated to over 30 degrees Celsius (86°F)? By the way, I’m currently sitting here at 22.8 degrees Celsius (73°F) at my laptop and I’m cold .This is because all surfaces maintain a fairly uniform temperature, and there are no cold radiant sources like windows and so on. As a result, there is also less convection and draught. Overall, it simply feels more comfortable.
B
Bauexperte19 May 2015 14:23@Panama17
Sorry, I somehow missed your question. But DerBjoern kindly provided the correct answer.
Regards, Bauexperte
Sorry, I somehow missed your question. But DerBjoern kindly provided the correct answer.
Regards, Bauexperte
DerBjoern schrieb:
This is because all surfaces have fairly uniform temperatures and there are no cold radiant sources like windows, etc. As a result, there is less convection and drafts. Overall, it just feels more comfortable.What exactly is meant by "cold radiant sources like windows"? We’re not living in an old building; the house was built in 2014 and the windows are double-glazed. New builds have windows too, right? So far, only double glazing is planned.
By the way, the thermal insulation report has arrived. Unfortunately, I don’t fully understand it. The conclusion states that
- a gas boiler with a 300-liter (79-gallon) hot water storage tank
- solar thermal system with 8m² (86ft²) collector area
- double-glazed windows
- wall structure consisting of 17.5cm (7 inches) calcium silicate brick, 8cm (3 inches) mineral wool insulation, an air cavity, and outer cladding
are sufficient. At least we don’t need a heat pump.
Is investing in triple-glazed windows worthwhile? Does it improve comfort, or is it just for saving energy?
D
Doc.Schnaggls8 Jun 2015 09:54Panama17 schrieb:
Is investing in triple-glazed windows worth it? Does it provide a comfort benefit, or is it just for energy savings?Hello,
I wouldn’t want to miss our triple-glazed windows anymore.
Especially the past few days with temperatures up to 36°C (97°F) have shown us that a building with these windows, despite nearly "perfect" south-facing orientation, heats up far less than with double-glazed windows – which we had in our previous home (built in 2000).
Best regards,
Dirk
That is certainly true. Our rooms heat up significantly from the sun. However, you also have to consider the location of the house in Panama: from what I remember, it is not oriented to the south.
We have double glazing, KfW 70 standard with gas solar system and controlled ventilation with heat recovery (without noise).
We have double glazing, KfW 70 standard with gas solar system and controlled ventilation with heat recovery (without noise).
S
Sebastian798 Jun 2015 12:57It’s not possible to make a general statement about double or triple glazing – it depends on the overall Ug-value of the windows. There are very good double-glazed windows that outperform poor triple-glazed ones by a significant margin in terms of U-value.
Also, with triple-glazed windows, you are more likely to face issues related to heat buildup – simple window films or pleated blinds (plissees) might not be feasible or could have limited effectiveness.
Regarding the panoramic window: 8 cm (3 inches) of mineral wool insulation is quite low – did you calculate based only on the 2014 minimal energy saving regulations? I would recommend investing a bit more... it doesn’t cost much but does make a noticeable difference.
Why “as long as there’s no heat pump”? Are you strongly against it?
Also, with triple-glazed windows, you are more likely to face issues related to heat buildup – simple window films or pleated blinds (plissees) might not be feasible or could have limited effectiveness.
Regarding the panoramic window: 8 cm (3 inches) of mineral wool insulation is quite low – did you calculate based only on the 2014 minimal energy saving regulations? I would recommend investing a bit more... it doesn’t cost much but does make a noticeable difference.
Why “as long as there’s no heat pump”? Are you strongly against it?
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