Hello everyone, I finally want to build on my plot and have shortlisted four homebuilders – but I’m struggling to decide because each has their own philosophy about the ideal wall construction.
Poroton brick, insulation, plaster, plus triple glazing
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Probably a classic nowadays. The house is completely airtight. The walls cannot “breathe,” so moisture from inside the house cannot escape. A ventilation system is therefore mandatory.
Brick, mineral wool, air gap, brick facade, plus triple glazing
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Walls are somewhat more “breathable,” but the companies still recommend a ventilation system.
36.5 cm (14.4 inches) Wienerberger thermal brick, plaster, no additional insulation, plus double glazing
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The “Mercedes” among bricks, no additional insulation needed, walls can breathe, triple glazing is not necessary.
So, which company is actually right and offers the perfect wall?
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I have removed the names of the providers because otherwise I would have had to move the post into the moderated forum.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Bauexperte
Poroton brick, insulation, plaster, plus triple glazing
----------------------------------------------------------------
Probably a classic nowadays. The house is completely airtight. The walls cannot “breathe,” so moisture from inside the house cannot escape. A ventilation system is therefore mandatory.
Brick, mineral wool, air gap, brick facade, plus triple glazing
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Walls are somewhat more “breathable,” but the companies still recommend a ventilation system.
36.5 cm (14.4 inches) Wienerberger thermal brick, plaster, no additional insulation, plus double glazing
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The “Mercedes” among bricks, no additional insulation needed, walls can breathe, triple glazing is not necessary.
So, which company is actually right and offers the perfect wall?
-------------------------
I have removed the names of the providers because otherwise I would have had to move the post into the moderated forum.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Bauexperte
B
Bauexperte1 Jun 2015 11:37Lebensprojekt schrieb:
The healthier brick is the ....At some point, I will still write my book about the most common building misconceptions.When considering a wall thickness of 36.5cm (14.4 inches) — boiled down to the essentials — there is only one real difference between aerated concrete and clay brick: when drilling, aerated concrete crumbles white dust, while clay brick produces red dust.
Best regards, Bauexperte
L
Lebensprojekt1 Jun 2015 12:44Hello,
I understand that manufacturers tend to include their own selling points, for example, that Ytong is made from a mix of sand, gravel, and other materials, while Poroton consists of clay and is therefore natural stone, as a building biologist would say. For plumbers, Ytong might be preferable because it is easier to work with, while a building biologist would favor the red brick since it is natural stone.
For us, both would be acceptable because these obvious arguments would be accepted by non-experts.
So, we still don’t know which is best. As mentioned, Ytong is more affordable and offers the same or better insulation, but it provides poorer soundproofing....
I understand that manufacturers tend to include their own selling points, for example, that Ytong is made from a mix of sand, gravel, and other materials, while Poroton consists of clay and is therefore natural stone, as a building biologist would say. For plumbers, Ytong might be preferable because it is easier to work with, while a building biologist would favor the red brick since it is natural stone.
For us, both would be acceptable because these obvious arguments would be accepted by non-experts.
So, we still don’t know which is best. As mentioned, Ytong is more affordable and offers the same or better insulation, but it provides poorer soundproofing....
B
Bauexperte1 Jun 2015 20:08Good evening,
I always smile when I read statements like this; but since it fits so well here, I have to correct this briefly
**Poroton, components in the raw mixture (by volume %):
70-90% clay, loam, marl
0-15% sand
0-15% limestone
<1% other
Additionally possible:
up to 10% coal dust or limestone powder, or up to 20% polystyrene or cellulose fibers
Note: the widely used Unipor® brick contains only 10-40% (vol.-%) clay content.
**Aerated concrete (by volume %):
80% air
20% burned lime, quartz sand, and water
***Thermal insulation Poroton[B]:
The heat absorbed by the solid brick walls and taken from the room is only released back into the room when it is cooler outside, allowing excess heat to be removed through natural ventilation. This capacity of the brick to delay heat transfer and dampen temperature fluctuations has been used for centuries in southern countries through the construction of solid brick houses (without additional air conditioning).
***Thermal insulation aerated concrete[B]:
Aerated concrete is the only solid building material with a thermal conductivity starting at 0.09 W/(mK) in density classes 0.30, 0.35, and 0.40. This means: a single-layer wall 30 cm (12 inches) thick already provides a thermal transmittance coefficient U = 0.28 W/(m²K). At a wall thickness of 36.5 cm (14 inches), the U-value drops to 0.23. In exterior wall applications, the requirements of the energy saving regulation (building permit / planning permission) can be met and even exceeded without additional insulation measures. Furthermore, the homogeneous wall structure allows for nearly thermal-bridge-free constructions. A plastered single-layer wall made of aerated concrete is considered airtight in terms of the energy saving regulation without additional measures.
***Sound insulation Poroton[B]:
Single-layer exterior walls of lightweight bricks, 30 cm (12 inches) or 36.5 cm (14 inches) thick, built with lightweight mortar and plastered on both sides, generally meet the requirements of DIN 4109 "Protection against external noise".
The sound insulation requirements for partition walls according to DIN 4109 are easily met with bricks having densities up to 2.4 kg/dm³.
***Sound insulation aerated concrete[B]:
Aerated concrete challenges the physical principle "the heavier a component, the better the airborne sound insulation" because its porous structure provides an internal damping effect. DIN 4109 accounts for this: aerated concrete walls with a surface mass up to 250 kg/m² receive a 2 dB bonus. Recent component measurements indicate even further improvements. Walls and solid roofs made of aerated concrete can provide sound insulation for all levels of external noise.
After suitability assessment III for DIN 4109, double-leaf party walls made of aerated concrete with 17.5 cm (7 inches) PP4-0.6 blocks and a 50 mm (2 inches) cavity filled completely with mineral insulation even meet the requirements for increased sound insulation.
There is no "the" stone; the decision should always be based on the specific construction project and personal preferences. Therefore – as I wrote: for one, it crumbles white, for another, red
**Source: forum, sustainable building
***Source: my website
Best regards, Bauexperte
Lebensprojekt schrieb:
... if Ytong is just mixed from sand, gravel, and other materials, and Poroton consists of clay and is therefore the natural stone, the building biologist would say.
I always smile when I read statements like this; but since it fits so well here, I have to correct this briefly
**Poroton, components in the raw mixture (by volume %):
70-90% clay, loam, marl
0-15% sand
0-15% limestone
<1% other
Additionally possible:
up to 10% coal dust or limestone powder, or up to 20% polystyrene or cellulose fibers
Note: the widely used Unipor® brick contains only 10-40% (vol.-%) clay content.
**Aerated concrete (by volume %):
80% air
20% burned lime, quartz sand, and water
Lebensprojekt schrieb:
As said, Ytong is cheaper with equal or better insulation properties ...
***Thermal insulation Poroton[B]:
The heat absorbed by the solid brick walls and taken from the room is only released back into the room when it is cooler outside, allowing excess heat to be removed through natural ventilation. This capacity of the brick to delay heat transfer and dampen temperature fluctuations has been used for centuries in southern countries through the construction of solid brick houses (without additional air conditioning).
***Thermal insulation aerated concrete[B]:
Aerated concrete is the only solid building material with a thermal conductivity starting at 0.09 W/(mK) in density classes 0.30, 0.35, and 0.40. This means: a single-layer wall 30 cm (12 inches) thick already provides a thermal transmittance coefficient U = 0.28 W/(m²K). At a wall thickness of 36.5 cm (14 inches), the U-value drops to 0.23. In exterior wall applications, the requirements of the energy saving regulation (building permit / planning permission) can be met and even exceeded without additional insulation measures. Furthermore, the homogeneous wall structure allows for nearly thermal-bridge-free constructions. A plastered single-layer wall made of aerated concrete is considered airtight in terms of the energy saving regulation without additional measures.
Lebensprojekt schrieb:
but worse in sound insulation....
***Sound insulation Poroton[B]:
Single-layer exterior walls of lightweight bricks, 30 cm (12 inches) or 36.5 cm (14 inches) thick, built with lightweight mortar and plastered on both sides, generally meet the requirements of DIN 4109 "Protection against external noise".
The sound insulation requirements for partition walls according to DIN 4109 are easily met with bricks having densities up to 2.4 kg/dm³.
***Sound insulation aerated concrete[B]:
Aerated concrete challenges the physical principle "the heavier a component, the better the airborne sound insulation" because its porous structure provides an internal damping effect. DIN 4109 accounts for this: aerated concrete walls with a surface mass up to 250 kg/m² receive a 2 dB bonus. Recent component measurements indicate even further improvements. Walls and solid roofs made of aerated concrete can provide sound insulation for all levels of external noise.
After suitability assessment III for DIN 4109, double-leaf party walls made of aerated concrete with 17.5 cm (7 inches) PP4-0.6 blocks and a 50 mm (2 inches) cavity filled completely with mineral insulation even meet the requirements for increased sound insulation.
There is no "the" stone; the decision should always be based on the specific construction project and personal preferences. Therefore – as I wrote: for one, it crumbles white, for another, red
**Source: forum, sustainable building
***Source: my website
Best regards, Bauexperte
L
Lebensprojekt1 Jun 2015 20:31Lebensprojekt schrieb:
Hello,
I understand that manufacturers often include their sales arguments, for example, that Ytong is just a mix of sand, gravel, and other materials, while Poroton is made from clay and therefore considered a natural stone by the building biologist.
So, the entire sentence wasn’t meant seriously—I thought that was clear. Anyway, that’s roughly how the building biologist presented it; for them, aerated concrete is the “enemy” of stones.
To cut it short, which one do you prefer? And why?
Thanks and regardsB
Bauexperte1 Jun 2015 20:38Lebensprojekt schrieb:
To keep it brief, which do you prefer? And why? Aerated concrete is more precise to work with, whereas with hollow brick the plasterer has to compensate for dimensional variations caused by the firing process. For us, the only important thing is that by using one type of block or the other, we can avoid installing an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) / external wall insulation. So, I have no particular preference for or against either.
Regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian791 Jun 2015 20:40You always forget the god among the stones
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