ᐅ Skepticism Regarding External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS) on New Multi-Family Residential Buildings
Created on: 6 Mar 2015 22:02
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werschtl
Hello dear forum,
I would like to ask for some advice. We have purchased a condominium that is currently under construction as a new build. However, the more I learn about the construction methods, the more concerned I become. Especially regarding insulation, it can be quite alarming when following all these documents. With regard to External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS), you have the choice between bad and worse from one developer to another in our city.
In our case, the company enjoys a good reputation for quality and can refer to numerous references. The exterior walls are made of 20cm (8 inches) thick Silka-Ytong blocks and are then covered with 15cm (6 inches) thick STO polystyrene panels. Since our unit is being built with a penthouse character, there are numerous exterior walls in the kitchen, bedroom, and hallway. The north-facing facade (without windows) has only a 3m (10 feet) gap to the neighboring building. My concern is that due to this small distance, increased moisture accumulation on the wall surface could occur, potentially leading to heating problems or mold issues early on. Most construction companies working on similar projects use this type of build. Since the new regulation from 2014, even brick buildings are being covered with this plastic layer. In my view, this is a disaster. Probably, the indoor climate in such an apartment will be far from that of an older building.
Ideally, we would like to reverse the purchase.
Who has experience or knowledge about this type of construction? How many years might it take before serious problems arise?
Good luck
Frank
I would like to ask for some advice. We have purchased a condominium that is currently under construction as a new build. However, the more I learn about the construction methods, the more concerned I become. Especially regarding insulation, it can be quite alarming when following all these documents. With regard to External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS), you have the choice between bad and worse from one developer to another in our city.
In our case, the company enjoys a good reputation for quality and can refer to numerous references. The exterior walls are made of 20cm (8 inches) thick Silka-Ytong blocks and are then covered with 15cm (6 inches) thick STO polystyrene panels. Since our unit is being built with a penthouse character, there are numerous exterior walls in the kitchen, bedroom, and hallway. The north-facing facade (without windows) has only a 3m (10 feet) gap to the neighboring building. My concern is that due to this small distance, increased moisture accumulation on the wall surface could occur, potentially leading to heating problems or mold issues early on. Most construction companies working on similar projects use this type of build. Since the new regulation from 2014, even brick buildings are being covered with this plastic layer. In my view, this is a disaster. Probably, the indoor climate in such an apartment will be far from that of an older building.
Ideally, we would like to reverse the purchase.
Who has experience or knowledge about this type of construction? How many years might it take before serious problems arise?
Good luck
Frank
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DerBjoern9 Mar 2015 15:44Bauexperte schrieb:
This topic always stirs up strong opinions; for me, it is also hazardous waste. The term is justified since brominated insulation materials must be thermally treated to prevent environmental harm.Strictly speaking, almost everything from a house demolition is hazardous waste.
However, it is also true that—if carefully installed—there is no risk to humans or animals, as long as the exterior layer of the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) is not damaged.Okay, but what kind of risk arises if the exterior layer is damaged?
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Bauexperte9 Mar 2015 16:17DerBjoern schrieb:
Ok, and what risk is supposed to arise if the building envelope is damaged? Voki referred to a report from the Federal Environment Agency. It states, for example:
[...] Even residents living in a house with HBCD-containing insulation boards do not need to fear negative health effects with proper use, since only very little HBCD is released from the boards during the service life, which could be absorbed by residents through air or house dust. As a precaution, substances like HBCD should not be released at all to prevent accumulation in the human body or the environment.
I did not want to go that deep into the topic because, on the one hand, I unfortunately have to leave the discussion soon, and on the other hand, there are other reasons besides the benefits of chemistry that discourage me from such insulation measures. To be fair, however, I want to add that – with unprotected insulation boards – only very small amounts of the discussed HBCD are washed out by rainwater.
In the end, every builder must decide for themselves what they want and what they do not. You have chosen an ETICS system (External Thermal Insulation Composite System) and that is your right; another builder may choose a different type of facade construction. What I expect from everyone participating in this discussion is to keep it factual; none of us will get any less knowledgeable by seriously considering opposing views 😉
Best regards, Bauexperte
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DerBjoern10 Mar 2015 10:14Bauexperte schrieb:
In the end, every homeowner has to decide for themselves what they want and what they don’t. You have chosen an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS), and that is your full right; another homeowner may choose a differently constructed facade. What I expect from the participants here is simply to keep the discussion factual; we certainly won’t become any less knowledgeable by seriously considering opposing opinions. 😉As far as I’m concerned, everyone can install whatever they want. I earn my living in a completely different field. But the purpose of a forum is to exchange information. And when panic arises due to completely incorrect assumptions and arguments being used, it’s important to point that out. There are certainly valid reasons to choose against ETICS with expanded polystyrene (EPS), but indoor climate and mold growth are definitely not among them. Personally, I chose EPS because my architect at the time presented it as a solution for my specific conditions, although she had zero experience with it. That was generally the case in my region. Here, except for one other house, no building uses ETICS because everything is uniformly faced with brickwork (which is even cheaper here!). So I was forced to research extensively and deeply engage with the topic myself. While I am an engineer in another field, I am capable of understanding and calculating technical, physical, and chemical properties. When you calculate things like water vapor diffusion through building materials or study chemical separation processes of HBCD with polymer chains, you can fairly well assess what the statements of others (salespeople, consultants, industry representatives, alarmists...) are worth. Especially in housebuilding, a lot of emotional tactics are used to sell products and solutions to customers.
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DerBjoern10 Mar 2015 10:22Voki1 schrieb:
Oops, quite a series of dismissive arguments. Who would still feel confident to represent their point of view given your expertise here? This probably makes the entire post unnecessary. 😉also a great discussion culture...
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Bauexperte10 Mar 2015 10:23Voki1 schrieb:
Oops, quite a few dismissal arguments there. Who would still dare to represent their opinion here with your training? That probably makes the entire post unnecessary. 😉 Why? For many homeowners, quite simple reasons speak against an EIFS (external insulation and finishing system). Therefore, it can be discussed well beyond chemistry, engineers, and the like.
Go ahead – why did you decide against it?
Best regards, Bauexperte
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