ᐅ Skepticism Regarding External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS) on New Multi-Family Residential Buildings
Created on: 6 Mar 2015 22:02
W
werschtl
Hello dear forum,
I would like to ask for some advice. We have purchased a condominium that is currently under construction as a new build. However, the more I learn about the construction methods, the more concerned I become. Especially regarding insulation, it can be quite alarming when following all these documents. With regard to External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS), you have the choice between bad and worse from one developer to another in our city.
In our case, the company enjoys a good reputation for quality and can refer to numerous references. The exterior walls are made of 20cm (8 inches) thick Silka-Ytong blocks and are then covered with 15cm (6 inches) thick STO polystyrene panels. Since our unit is being built with a penthouse character, there are numerous exterior walls in the kitchen, bedroom, and hallway. The north-facing facade (without windows) has only a 3m (10 feet) gap to the neighboring building. My concern is that due to this small distance, increased moisture accumulation on the wall surface could occur, potentially leading to heating problems or mold issues early on. Most construction companies working on similar projects use this type of build. Since the new regulation from 2014, even brick buildings are being covered with this plastic layer. In my view, this is a disaster. Probably, the indoor climate in such an apartment will be far from that of an older building.
Ideally, we would like to reverse the purchase.
Who has experience or knowledge about this type of construction? How many years might it take before serious problems arise?
Good luck
Frank
I would like to ask for some advice. We have purchased a condominium that is currently under construction as a new build. However, the more I learn about the construction methods, the more concerned I become. Especially regarding insulation, it can be quite alarming when following all these documents. With regard to External Thermal Insulation Composite Systems (ETICS), you have the choice between bad and worse from one developer to another in our city.
In our case, the company enjoys a good reputation for quality and can refer to numerous references. The exterior walls are made of 20cm (8 inches) thick Silka-Ytong blocks and are then covered with 15cm (6 inches) thick STO polystyrene panels. Since our unit is being built with a penthouse character, there are numerous exterior walls in the kitchen, bedroom, and hallway. The north-facing facade (without windows) has only a 3m (10 feet) gap to the neighboring building. My concern is that due to this small distance, increased moisture accumulation on the wall surface could occur, potentially leading to heating problems or mold issues early on. Most construction companies working on similar projects use this type of build. Since the new regulation from 2014, even brick buildings are being covered with this plastic layer. In my view, this is a disaster. Probably, the indoor climate in such an apartment will be far from that of an older building.
Ideally, we would like to reverse the purchase.
Who has experience or knowledge about this type of construction? How many years might it take before serious problems arise?
Good luck
Frank
werschtl schrieb:
Thank you very much,
yes, informing yourself early is certainly the right approach, but catching all the information beforehand is rather unrealistic. The real shock came when I attended a specialist lecture for homeowners, where they provided very competent information about building materials. That means you really grow into the topic. The fact is, from my point of view, looking into the future. Thermal insulation made from future hazardous waste — the lobby is profiting now and already making good money, knowing that in a few years property owners will be forced to dispose of this hazardous waste at high costs. It’s perverse and environmentally damaging to produce insulation material in order to supposedly protect the environment.
I can imagine that there will be forced regulations again for insulation using clay and straw??? Anyone with enough money builds with bricks, plaster on top, and that’s it, ignoring the energy-efficiency subsidies. Unfortunately, I’m not eligible for this benefit. At the moment, my only alternative would be to remain a tenant in an older building.
Good luck, FrankFor exactly these reasons, we chose the “brick-and-plaster” option. However, we added mineral wool insulation in between. ;-) For various reasons, I am not in favor of comprehensive polystyrene insulation.
Well, as I have been saying all along, if the companies do their work properly, there is no need for disposal. Of course, if there is poor workmanship, that’s a different matter, but poor workmanship can happen even with the best bricks without external insulation systems... that is not an insulation issue. And contrary to popular belief, polystyrene is not hazardous waste; it can be cleanly recycled. This is not just a claim from the industry lobby but has also been confirmed by the Fraunhofer Institute. The fact that disposal companies charge high fees and take advantage of ignorance is simply market economy.
Polystyrene will probably never be banned... it is affordable, meets regulations and requirements, and is also environmentally neutral...
Polystyrene will probably never be banned... it is affordable, meets regulations and requirements, and is also environmentally neutral...
D
DerBjoern9 Mar 2015 07:41@werschtl
Warning! You have fallen for scams! But I’m not referring to the developer here, rather those documentaries from the "outrage TV" genre.
Warning! You have fallen for scams! But I’m not referring to the developer here, rather those documentaries from the "outrage TV" genre.
This is truly a typical topic. People either like it or avoid it like the plague. Especially with polystyrene, the current debate about its fire performance is in full swing. It is supposed to be flame-retardant (due to the addition of a series of chemicals), but then burns intensely once it actually catches fire.
This raises the question of whether this insulation material might become hazardous waste in the future, since the flame-retardant chemicals used should not be disposed of in regular trash.
To my knowledge, there are also no long-term studies yet on the durability of this insulation. However, it is clear that this insulation is easy to work with and fairly inexpensive. These aspects always make me cautious. I am somewhat older now (so to speak, a bit old-fashioned), and from my experience, things that cost very little but claim to offer the same or better performance than conventional methods often come with some drawbacks. Often, this is a lack of longevity, which in this case could relate to future disposal issues. It is, after all, a form of lightweight construction. 😉
This raises the question of whether this insulation material might become hazardous waste in the future, since the flame-retardant chemicals used should not be disposed of in regular trash.
To my knowledge, there are also no long-term studies yet on the durability of this insulation. However, it is clear that this insulation is easy to work with and fairly inexpensive. These aspects always make me cautious. I am somewhat older now (so to speak, a bit old-fashioned), and from my experience, things that cost very little but claim to offer the same or better performance than conventional methods often come with some drawbacks. Often, this is a lack of longevity, which in this case could relate to future disposal issues. It is, after all, a form of lightweight construction. 😉
D
DerBjoern9 Mar 2015 08:00Voki1 schrieb:
This is truly a polarizing topic. People either like it or avoid it like the plague. Especially with polystyrene, the current debate about fire performance is in full swing. It is said to be flame-retardant (due to the addition of various chemicals), but once it catches fire, it burns fiercely. Saying "various chemicals" is incorrect! It mainly still involves HBCD. "Still" because there is a directive that requires replacing it this year (I believe starting in August) with alternatives that are more biodegradable.
This raises the question of whether this insulation might later be considered hazardous waste, since the (fire-retardant) chemicals used ideally should not go into regular waste. It is not hazardous waste, but rather a recyclable material. 😉 Polystyrene can be reused, for example, also for insulation. However, the majority is actually recovered thermally—in other words, it ends up in incineration plants.
In contrast, glass wool is hazardous waste and can only be landfilled!
As far as I know, there are no long-term studies on the durability of this insulation yet. But it is clear that this insulation is easy to work with and relatively inexpensive. These aspects always make me cautious. I am older (so to speak, I "smell like soil") and from my experience, things that cost very little but claim to have the same or better properties than conventional methods often have some drawbacks. Often, this is reduced durability, and here it could be future disposal. It’s kind of lightweight construction. 😉 Styrofoam was already partially used in the late 1960s. Reduced durability is generally not known. Its lifespan is within the normal range for plastered facades.
My point exactly... inform yourself first and then start shouting... and please don’t encourage reporters’ appetite for sensationalism.
It is true that polystyrene is flammable... but so is wood, and wooden houses are still being built. What about thatched roofs along our coasts? These are extremely flammable, especially in the height of summer.
Polystyrene is simply another building material available today, whether you choose to use it or not. However, it is not the hazardous substance it is often made out to be. If, contrary to expectations, disposal is necessary, it is relatively easy to remove it from the building, separate it from other components (such as reinforcing mesh), and then either recycle it into granules, reuse it through chemical dissolution, or if necessary, incinerate it. After all, household waste is also incinerated by the ton every day.
It is true that polystyrene is flammable... but so is wood, and wooden houses are still being built. What about thatched roofs along our coasts? These are extremely flammable, especially in the height of summer.
Polystyrene is simply another building material available today, whether you choose to use it or not. However, it is not the hazardous substance it is often made out to be. If, contrary to expectations, disposal is necessary, it is relatively easy to remove it from the building, separate it from other components (such as reinforcing mesh), and then either recycle it into granules, reuse it through chemical dissolution, or if necessary, incinerate it. After all, household waste is also incinerated by the ton every day.
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