ᐅ Solid Wall House: Which Type of Block? Poroton, Liapor / Expanded Clay, Ytong?
Created on: 19 Feb 2015 06:57
K
krausf3Hello,
we are currently working on our house planning (for the second time).
Since our first attempt in 2011, a lot has changed.
We would like to hear your impressions of the building materials mentioned above.
At the moment, we are unsure how good all these different materials really are.
What would you recommend and why?
Best regards,
Florian
we are currently working on our house planning (for the second time).
Since our first attempt in 2011, a lot has changed.
We would like to hear your impressions of the building materials mentioned above.
At the moment, we are unsure how good all these different materials really are.
What would you recommend and why?
Best regards,
Florian
Häuslebau3r19 Feb 2015 07:13Good morning
Maybe this will help you. I recently asked the same question and researched different types of bricks with their U-values.
Maybe this will help you. I recently asked the same question and researched different types of bricks with their U-values.
u-wert.net
A lot depends on what you want and, above all, who you are building with. Many model home providers construct their standard designs.
Generally speaking: the heavier the construction, the better the sound insulation and thermal mass; the lighter the construction, the better the thermal insulation.
Are you building with facing brick? Then a cavity wall is recommended (with mineral wool insulation placed between).
Otherwise, clay is certainly a good choice.
We are building with facing brick and are still debating between calcium silicate blocks and aerated concrete for the masonry—thermal insulation (0.2 W/m²K vs. 0.15 W/m²K) versus thermal mass and sound insulation.
A lot depends on what you want and, above all, who you are building with. Many model home providers construct their standard designs.
Generally speaking: the heavier the construction, the better the sound insulation and thermal mass; the lighter the construction, the better the thermal insulation.
Are you building with facing brick? Then a cavity wall is recommended (with mineral wool insulation placed between).
Otherwise, clay is certainly a good choice.
We are building with facing brick and are still debating between calcium silicate blocks and aerated concrete for the masonry—thermal insulation (0.2 W/m²K vs. 0.15 W/m²K) versus thermal mass and sound insulation.
Manu1976 schrieb:
How did you build your first house? And what speaks against building it the same way again?We planned to build in 2011.
Back then, we had decided on Liapor, but unfortunately had to postpone for personal reasons and are now making a new attempt.
BeHaElJa schrieb:
u-wert.net
A lot depends on what you want and especially who you build with. Many model home providers build their standard designs.
Otherwise, roughly speaking: the heavier the material, the better the soundproofing and heat storage;
the lighter the material, the better the thermal insulation.
Are you building with facing bricks? Then a cavity wall construction is recommended (with mineral wool insulation in between).
Otherwise, clay is certainly not a bad choice.
We are building with facing bricks and are still debating between sand-lime brick and aerated concrete for the masonry – so thermal insulation (0.2 W/m²K vs. 0.15 W/m²K) versus heat storage and soundproofing.We are planning a kind of townhouse with about 150sqm (1,615 sq ft).
Ultimately, all the materials mentioned are highly insulated bricks, meaning they contain a lot of air and little solid material. Poroton has the advantage, due to its structure, that the sides of the bricks consist of somewhat thicker material, and the "path" heat must travel along the load-bearing structure is longer. This allows Poroton to achieve comparable or better thermal insulation properties at a higher bulk density than the homogeneous aerated concrete bricks (e.g., Ytong). As a result, sound insulation, heat storage capacity, and mechanical stability for point loads are somewhat better.
With all of these materials, meeting energy efficiency regulations and structural requirements for a single-family home at reasonable wall thicknesses with a simple monolithic construction is relatively straightforward. Therefore, they are popular with developers. However, these insulated bricks at best have a thermal conductivity (lambda) of 0.07 W/mK (both Poroton and Ytong), meaning walls become quite thick when aiming for strong thermal insulation. Combining Poroton with additional insulation is usually not worthwhile; in that case, one might as well use sand-lime brick (calcium silicate brick). An ironic advantage is that as a DIY builder, you don’t need a rotary hammer or demolition hammer because the walls are quite crumbly.
A less commonly used alternative is sand-lime brick combined with an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, also called external wall insulation or “WDVS” in German). Sand-lime brick has a much higher bulk density (around 1.8 to 2.2 kg/l compared to about 0.5–0.6 kg/l for the highly insulated crumbly bricks). This results in better sound insulation and improved thermal performance on hot days (or more stable indoor temperatures overall), especially because the entire mass is insulated on the outside. Additionally, point loads can be better fixed on the inside. Furthermore, with high insulation requirements, a slimmer wall build-up is possible. The extent to which this advantage applies depends on the exact insulated brick used on one side and the desired thickness of the sand-lime masonry and insulation material on the other. For example: 40 cm (16 inches) of the best-insulated Poroton T7 roughly corresponds in thermal insulation to 20 cm (8 inches) of sand-lime brick plus 20 cm (8 inches) of EPS insulation board with a thermal conductivity of 0.035 W/mK (a rather inexpensive insulation). If you start from 17.5 cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick (the thinnest for external walls) or better insulation materials (PUR can achieve 0.023 W/mK), the balance shifts in favor of sand-lime brick.
Some say ETICS are more prone to algae growth (which may be true for thin synthetic resin renders), but I cannot assess whether this is actually the case. On the other hand, ETICS can be renewed if needed, whereas the insulation integrated in the brick cannot. Also, the 0.07 W/mK insulated bricks have only recently appeared on the market, while ETICS systems have already undergone some learning curve. It also becomes critical if external insulation is later added to these insulated bricks. In that case, two insulation systems with different vapor diffusion properties interact, which can cause problems like condensation at the interface. Another consideration is safety regarding water damage and repair, but I have no detailed knowledge here. My gut feeling suggests that aerated concrete is the most vulnerable (since it is essentially a concrete foam), and sand-lime brick is the least.
I would not worry too much about vapor openness and all the related details. All solid walls can buffer a significant amount of water vapor, and ultimately, moisture must be removed by ventilation, not by vapor diffusion through the walls.
However, all this knowledge is mostly theoretical at this point.
From painful experience, I can comment on Poroton and sound insulation as well as thermal bridges. Simply installing a window or door in Poroton or aerated concrete, while the frame itself may be insulated, usually creates a perfect thermal bridge around it, posing a risk of mold. With sand-lime brick, point weaknesses in the insulation cause more heat loss due to the good thermal conductivity, but this rarely leads to local cooling of the wall and therefore no mold risk. Also, window frames are usually integrated into the ETICS with overlaps. This does not mean that proper installation cannot be done with Poroton or Ytong, but it requires special attention.
With all of these materials, meeting energy efficiency regulations and structural requirements for a single-family home at reasonable wall thicknesses with a simple monolithic construction is relatively straightforward. Therefore, they are popular with developers. However, these insulated bricks at best have a thermal conductivity (lambda) of 0.07 W/mK (both Poroton and Ytong), meaning walls become quite thick when aiming for strong thermal insulation. Combining Poroton with additional insulation is usually not worthwhile; in that case, one might as well use sand-lime brick (calcium silicate brick). An ironic advantage is that as a DIY builder, you don’t need a rotary hammer or demolition hammer because the walls are quite crumbly.
A less commonly used alternative is sand-lime brick combined with an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, also called external wall insulation or “WDVS” in German). Sand-lime brick has a much higher bulk density (around 1.8 to 2.2 kg/l compared to about 0.5–0.6 kg/l for the highly insulated crumbly bricks). This results in better sound insulation and improved thermal performance on hot days (or more stable indoor temperatures overall), especially because the entire mass is insulated on the outside. Additionally, point loads can be better fixed on the inside. Furthermore, with high insulation requirements, a slimmer wall build-up is possible. The extent to which this advantage applies depends on the exact insulated brick used on one side and the desired thickness of the sand-lime masonry and insulation material on the other. For example: 40 cm (16 inches) of the best-insulated Poroton T7 roughly corresponds in thermal insulation to 20 cm (8 inches) of sand-lime brick plus 20 cm (8 inches) of EPS insulation board with a thermal conductivity of 0.035 W/mK (a rather inexpensive insulation). If you start from 17.5 cm (7 inches) sand-lime brick (the thinnest for external walls) or better insulation materials (PUR can achieve 0.023 W/mK), the balance shifts in favor of sand-lime brick.
Some say ETICS are more prone to algae growth (which may be true for thin synthetic resin renders), but I cannot assess whether this is actually the case. On the other hand, ETICS can be renewed if needed, whereas the insulation integrated in the brick cannot. Also, the 0.07 W/mK insulated bricks have only recently appeared on the market, while ETICS systems have already undergone some learning curve. It also becomes critical if external insulation is later added to these insulated bricks. In that case, two insulation systems with different vapor diffusion properties interact, which can cause problems like condensation at the interface. Another consideration is safety regarding water damage and repair, but I have no detailed knowledge here. My gut feeling suggests that aerated concrete is the most vulnerable (since it is essentially a concrete foam), and sand-lime brick is the least.
I would not worry too much about vapor openness and all the related details. All solid walls can buffer a significant amount of water vapor, and ultimately, moisture must be removed by ventilation, not by vapor diffusion through the walls.
However, all this knowledge is mostly theoretical at this point.
From painful experience, I can comment on Poroton and sound insulation as well as thermal bridges. Simply installing a window or door in Poroton or aerated concrete, while the frame itself may be insulated, usually creates a perfect thermal bridge around it, posing a risk of mold. With sand-lime brick, point weaknesses in the insulation cause more heat loss due to the good thermal conductivity, but this rarely leads to local cooling of the wall and therefore no mold risk. Also, window frames are usually integrated into the ETICS with overlaps. This does not mean that proper installation cannot be done with Poroton or Ytong, but it requires special attention.
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