ᐅ Single-family house floor plan, approximately 200 sqm without a basement – assessment

Slammer0909 schrieb:
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We have very fixed ideas, and I have my fairly firm opinions. That’s why there are already 15 pages of correspondence and some friction. I know the suggestions are well intended, but the participants keep hitting the same deep-set point, which does not improve my position here.
Generally, I believe it can be done better; I just don’t know how. Because simply making it look nicer at the expense of compromises on my part doesn’t work for me either.

I skimmed through this thread again: two things stood out to me.
Firstly, your initial post, and secondly, your analysis of the examples we provided.

Unfortunately, you are too attached to your established walls to consider other options. The same mistakes keep recurring—so typical for a non-professional—never allowing something different.
Our ideas were not meant to be analyzed; they were simply intended to show you that there are alternative ways to realize your catalog.
Honestly, I haven’t seen any indication that you have been inspired by them—and that’s probably not because of the suggestions themselves.

So why should anyone still bother to show you other perspectives? Are you apparently waiting for the ultimate design?

Is this thread even in any way beneficial to you?

Asks Yvonne

P.S. You don’t place a pantry on the west side unless you have to.

Well, so far I’ve only been met with endless objections. On the other hand, not a single one from my entire circle of acquaintances.
I let it sit for a while, then created a new plan with an architect and shared it here.

Same reaction. If I were to post a new, almost finished plan from another architect now, I doubt it would get much praise either, just because of the general “mood” here.

To be honest, the differences between these plans (mine and kbt09’s) weren’t that significant. The key area for me — the kitchen and living space — is actually identical. It was the same with the architect’s plan as well. So what exactly is so bad about it?

And the “secondary rooms,” well, that’s debatable. Some of my rooms were roughly 2.5 x 5 meters (8 x 16 feet), which are considered “bad” because they’re too narrow and long. Other layouts have rooms about 2.5 x 3.5 meters (8 x 11 feet), which makes them more rectangular and supposedly okay.
Now my question is: if I can manage to expand this room from 2.5 x 3.5 meters (8 x 11 feet) to even 5 meters (16 feet) in length, how would that make it worse? I could also separate 2 meters (6.5 feet) off with a curtain to make it unusable, but at least it would still be nicely rectangular!

Looking at my wishes, I see most of them reflected in the layout we created together. I don’t want to just deviate from that without finding a better alternative.
Why would it be a “step backward,” even if others prefer it?

Some things I’ve been criticized for are, in my opinion, also present in kbt09’s plan. And it’s considered okay there? But not for mine? I don’t understand…

It’s like this: I have a 12 x 12 meter (39 x 39 feet) exterior shell, which needs to be divided by positioning the interior walls. The usable area is always the same. So you have to decide where and how much space you need for what.

You correctly pointed out that I was wasting too much space on hallways. I have already reduced that. If there’s an issue with the kitchen island, just imagine removing it. That way, the “narrow corridor” to the kitchen, which is 1.4 meters (4.5 feet) wide — in my opinion not cramped at all — is also only 1.5 meters (5 feet) long, and then the L-shaped kitchen begins, for example.

And we’d like the niche where either the wardrobe or preferably the door to the guest bathroom is located, no matter which corner of the house it’s in.
You see this in almost every other floor plan from Viebrockhaus... so are they getting it wrong every other time?

I believe criticism should always come with alternative suggestions to be helpful.

It’s not like no one has done that here. But every other post basically says “you’re resistant to advice,” etc.

I explain why I do (or don’t) comment — after all, isn’t that the least I can do when you take the time to sketch something? I share my perspective on your proposed floor plans: what I like and what I don’t, what works for me and what doesn’t.

And sometimes I find it ironic that things I’m criticized for are also done “wrong” or “badly” by others. But well, the point here isn’t really to scrutinize and analyze others’ plans either.

In the end, you have to live in the house, not anyone from the forum. Just don't expect people like kbt to spend even more hours here if you dismiss all suggestions anyway.

One thing I would definitely reconsider is the price. Under 1300€/m² (121 USD/ft²), including painting work, is extremely low. You should double-check what is actually included to avoid being surprised by high additional costs later on.

The example of Kaho clearly shows how much influence the furniture alone can have. With smaller dimensions combined with smaller furniture, everything somehow looks fitting.

There, I wouldn’t be able to fit my dining table and a lounge area of 3.5m (11.5 ft) along with a fireplace and my hi-fi living room unit.

As I mentioned before, I tend to plan with larger furniture to avoid unpleasant surprises later on. For example, my dining table measures 1.1 x 2m (3.6 x 6.6 ft), which is not exactly small. The dining nook in the kitchen has leg lengths of 1.5 x 2m (4.9 x 6.6 ft), also not at all tiny. Combined with a slightly larger room, it again comes across as tight and small.

Attached is a view with correspondingly smaller furniture and a different kitchen layout:

I am grateful to kbt09 for providing the suggestions.
But if I go to the draftsman now with his design and submit it as is, will everyone here be satisfied with that, yes?

3m (10 feet) is supposedly too narrow to arrange a dining table, but I have to live with that in his design as well. Narrow, winding hallways are annoying, but I’m supposed to build them like that...

It does bother me a little that everyone seems to have a negative attitude towards me.

You can really only discuss prices if you know the specific region, so that only makes limited sense. What is clear, though, is that an upgrade for a special tile we choose has a greater financial impact in a 50sqm (538 sqft) area than in 30sqm (323 sqft). I already mentioned that this builder is cheaper compared to others. A close colleague of mine did not regret choosing them!!

I would also like to make it a bit smaller, but I lack ideas. Some are coming up now, but it still has to work well for me.

@Koha: Thanks to you first of all.

I appreciate what you have done.
I was criticized more than once that a 20sqm (215 sqft) hallway is not so good because it is actually a bit too much. But with you, including living space, it’s a total of 24sqm (258 sqft).
I don’t need the additional guest bathroom; one bathroom with a shower or preferably a bathtub is enough for me.
I like the utility room as it is, but I would move the garage back to the east side to have more courtyard space in front. The northwest corner at the back is just wasted space.
You couldn’t have known that since you don’t know the property. The entire east side is fenced off from the neighbors with a 2m (6.6 feet) high wooden fence (it was already there when I bought it). That will stay.
Living room and kitchen arranged at a corner and guest room at the bottom – by the way, that’s exactly what I already had in my drawer. Pantry then exactly in the upper left corner.
Now comes the catch again: the fence. My kitchen faces west, so my wife can look out towards the street while doing the dishes or similar.
With the design where the kitchen faces east, I would only look at the 3m (10 feet) border strip and the 2m (6.6 feet) wooden fence. There’s nothing more to see there. That would be a disadvantage.
You couldn’t go directly out to the terrace either. As I said, that was also an option we had before.

Overall, I now have a smaller living room, a smaller kitchen (even if only 3sqm (32 sqft) are “lost” on my side), but a bigger pantry.

As I said, the total area is always the same; it’s just a matter of how the individual rooms are sized differently.

The garage should have a separate entrance; as you mentioned, you didn’t know that yet.
I can’t separate the ground floor like that directly either, at least it’s not clear to me how.

I really like the upstairs bathroom. I will also consider making the entrance to the laundry room accessible only from the bathroom. It’s always tricky when someone wants privacy in the bathroom while another person needs to get into the laundry room at the same time. Of course, that happens rarely. With the variant that has a direct entrance from the hallway, this would be ensured.

Unfortunately, the party room won’t work like that, since for 3m (10 feet) from the left side we first have to have a flat roof because of the boundary building. You probably didn’t know that either; in any case, it won’t work as planned.

It is almost impossible to create a design that fits without an extensive discussion or reading these 100 pages.

I don’t know how everyone else sees it, whether the last draft is much better.
For me, the fact remains that two new aspects have come up for me to think about. Thank you for that.

But please don’t be upset if I don’t want to build my house exactly as it is now.

Once again: no one expects you to adopt a proposal exactly as it is. The purpose is to show you that there are many room layouts that can improve on your catalog and existing quality management without forcing any compromises. But you are simply not interested.

And who decided on the 12 x 12? Who defined a square living space that is very difficult to furnish?

From our side, you are free to build whatever and however you want.
However, don’t expect to have your mistakes confirmed.
If someone seeks advice and, after 105 posts, still sticks to their own planning mistakes, it is usually not due to a lack of helpfulness and flexibility among those offering suggestions.
I think you do spend a lot of time on the topic of house building, but when it comes to room design, you seem to lack much… sensitivity.

None of us here are trained designers or architects, yet some possess skills that cannot be taught, which is called spatial awareness.

I find it very unfortunate that this thread is going so unsatisfactorily – it keeps going around in circles… I haven’t noticed any real arguments.

I also doubt that the builder drew up a cost estimate based on your ideas.