Hello,
Last week, we visited the planner for the first time, who is now working on the initial design of our new home. It will be about 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), one and a half stories, and without a basement. We will be living in it as a family of four. For some time now, I have been thinking about the heating system.
I have spent hours researching online trying to get a clear picture. Here is what I have gathered so far:
Groundwater heat pump -> I initially liked this idea, but since we live near an open-pit mine, I can’t predict how the groundwater in the area might change.
Air source heat pump -> I’m not convinced… low efficiency in cold winters and also disturbing noise.
Ground source heat pump / collector -> One of my favorites, but not possible due to our property.
Ground source heat pump / borehole -> My current favorite. Downside: most expensive to install (unexpected costs with drilling?).
Oil heating -> I rule this out, as it takes up too much space that I’d rather use otherwise.
Pellet heating -> Also ruled out, for the same reason: too much space required.
When I told the planner about my current favorite—the ground source heat pump with a borehole—she introduced the topic of a gas heating system. Heat pumps can cost up to 25,000 euros (about 27,000 USD), and they are no longer as cost-effective... Houses today are insulated so well that gas is not as expensive for a single-family home. Her opinion was that the higher investment in heat pumps would never pay off. Also, the gas connection is already available on our street...
On the other hand, I have read that a gas condensing boiler alone might not be sufficient, as a certain energy standard for new buildings must be met. Therefore, only a gas condensing boiler combined with solar thermal (for hot water) would be feasible and probably sensible. The problem here is the orientation of the house/roof—it does not allow for a south-facing installation of solar collectors. Only east or west-facing options are possible, which are quite ineffective in this context.
What do you think? Do you believe a ground source heat pump would be more cost-effective than a gas condensing boiler? Or does it not make much difference in a new build, and the higher investment is not worth it? Or maybe it is worth it precisely because the solar thermal system cannot be fully utilized?
Estimated costs:
Ground source heat pump with borehole: 25,000 euros (about 27,000 USD)
Gas condensing boiler with solar thermal: 12,000 euros (about 13,000 USD)
New build location near Cottbus (deep eastern region).
Last week, we visited the planner for the first time, who is now working on the initial design of our new home. It will be about 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), one and a half stories, and without a basement. We will be living in it as a family of four. For some time now, I have been thinking about the heating system.
I have spent hours researching online trying to get a clear picture. Here is what I have gathered so far:
Groundwater heat pump -> I initially liked this idea, but since we live near an open-pit mine, I can’t predict how the groundwater in the area might change.
Air source heat pump -> I’m not convinced… low efficiency in cold winters and also disturbing noise.
Ground source heat pump / collector -> One of my favorites, but not possible due to our property.
Ground source heat pump / borehole -> My current favorite. Downside: most expensive to install (unexpected costs with drilling?).
Oil heating -> I rule this out, as it takes up too much space that I’d rather use otherwise.
Pellet heating -> Also ruled out, for the same reason: too much space required.
When I told the planner about my current favorite—the ground source heat pump with a borehole—she introduced the topic of a gas heating system. Heat pumps can cost up to 25,000 euros (about 27,000 USD), and they are no longer as cost-effective... Houses today are insulated so well that gas is not as expensive for a single-family home. Her opinion was that the higher investment in heat pumps would never pay off. Also, the gas connection is already available on our street...
On the other hand, I have read that a gas condensing boiler alone might not be sufficient, as a certain energy standard for new buildings must be met. Therefore, only a gas condensing boiler combined with solar thermal (for hot water) would be feasible and probably sensible. The problem here is the orientation of the house/roof—it does not allow for a south-facing installation of solar collectors. Only east or west-facing options are possible, which are quite ineffective in this context.
What do you think? Do you believe a ground source heat pump would be more cost-effective than a gas condensing boiler? Or does it not make much difference in a new build, and the higher investment is not worth it? Or maybe it is worth it precisely because the solar thermal system cannot be fully utilized?
Estimated costs:
Ground source heat pump with borehole: 25,000 euros (about 27,000 USD)
Gas condensing boiler with solar thermal: 12,000 euros (about 13,000 USD)
New build location near Cottbus (deep eastern region).
D
Doc.Schnaggls2 Dec 2014 14:36Hello,
have you already included the gas connection cost in the €12,000.00 for the gas condensing boiler with solar thermal system?
Because that will add a few thousand euros more, and suddenly you’re not that far from a heat pump...
How about an air-to-water heat pump paired with a photovoltaic system on the roof?
With the right sizing, you could then heat and provide hot water at virtually no cost in the future.
Regards,
Dirk
have you already included the gas connection cost in the €12,000.00 for the gas condensing boiler with solar thermal system?
Because that will add a few thousand euros more, and suddenly you’re not that far from a heat pump...
How about an air-to-water heat pump paired with a photovoltaic system on the roof?
With the right sizing, you could then heat and provide hot water at virtually no cost in the future.
Regards,
Dirk
About a year ago, we faced the same question...
Get a detailed quote from the gas supplier because connection fees are often flat-rated only up to a certain distance. Our connection from the property boundary/street to the utility room is 30 meters (98 feet), of which only 10 meters (33 feet) were included in the flat-rate connection fee. We had to pay extra for the remaining 20 meters (66 feet), and in total (including a small solar thermal system for hot water support) the cost was 15,000 euros. The geothermal system with deep drilling was around 20,000 euros. Since this way I could save on the chimney sweep and the heating installer who needs to annually or biennially adjust/check/tune the gas heating system depending on the setup, and because we do not have to worry about a gas accident, we decided on the geothermal system. If you want to calculate properly, you should also include the electricity costs for the gas boiler... it’s not much, but it doesn’t operate without electricity.
Our solar panels would have mainly faced west, slightly southwest...
What about the option of an ice storage heat pump? There should already be systems in the size of a small clarification unit (a concrete pit about 2.5 meters (8 feet) wide and 2-3 meters (7-10 feet) deep) for your needs. We looked into that at the time as well... It could work for smaller plots. I don’t know the costs offhand, but I know from our geothermal installer that it works well (he installed it at his daughter’s house). Otherwise, there are small combined heat and power units, but I think that won’t be possible for you due to space constraints...
Get a detailed quote from the gas supplier because connection fees are often flat-rated only up to a certain distance. Our connection from the property boundary/street to the utility room is 30 meters (98 feet), of which only 10 meters (33 feet) were included in the flat-rate connection fee. We had to pay extra for the remaining 20 meters (66 feet), and in total (including a small solar thermal system for hot water support) the cost was 15,000 euros. The geothermal system with deep drilling was around 20,000 euros. Since this way I could save on the chimney sweep and the heating installer who needs to annually or biennially adjust/check/tune the gas heating system depending on the setup, and because we do not have to worry about a gas accident, we decided on the geothermal system. If you want to calculate properly, you should also include the electricity costs for the gas boiler... it’s not much, but it doesn’t operate without electricity.
Our solar panels would have mainly faced west, slightly southwest...
What about the option of an ice storage heat pump? There should already be systems in the size of a small clarification unit (a concrete pit about 2.5 meters (8 feet) wide and 2-3 meters (7-10 feet) deep) for your needs. We looked into that at the time as well... It could work for smaller plots. I don’t know the costs offhand, but I know from our geothermal installer that it works well (he installed it at his daughter’s house). Otherwise, there are small combined heat and power units, but I think that won’t be possible for you due to space constraints...
Doc.Schnaggls schrieb:
Hello,
have you already included the gas connection in the EUR 12,000.00 for the gas condensing boiler with solar thermal system?
What about an air-to-water heat pump combined with a photovoltaic system on the roof?
I found the following overview:
Gas condensing boiler, floor-standing: 3,300 to 5,000 Euro
with integrated solar thermal system: 11,000 to 13,000 Euro
I think this price is calculated without the connection.
Is the air-to-water heat pump not the same as the air heat pump I described above? Basically a fan in front of the house that extracts heat from the air?
Jacob schrieb:
We faced the same question about a year ago...
Get a detailed quote for the gas installation, because often the connection costs are only flat rate up to a certain distance. Our connection from the property boundary/road to the utility room is 30 meters (about 98 feet), of which only 10 meters (about 33 feet) were included in the flat rate. We had to pay extra for the remaining 20 meters (about 66 feet), and in the end (including a small solar thermal system for domestic hot water support) it came to 15,000 Euro. The geothermal system with deep drilling was 20,000 Euro. Since I save the chimney sweep and the heating technician, who depending on the system should adjust/check/tune the gas heating annually or every two years, and because we don’t have to worry about a gas accident, we decided on geothermal. To calculate properly, you should also include the electricity costs for the gas heater... it’s not much, but without electricity the system won’t work.
Our solar system would have been mainly west-facing, slightly south...
What about the option of an ice storage heating system? It should be available for your needs as a small-scale system (2.5 m (8 feet) wide, 2–3 m (7–10 feet) deep concrete shaft). We looked into that back then... it could be a solution for smaller plots. I don’t remember the costs offhand, but our groundworker said it works very well (he installed it at his daughter’s house).
Otherwise there are also mini combined heat and power units, but I think this option is probably out for you because of space restrictions...Our gas connection is on the street, so it would probably only be about 10 meters (33 feet) to the house. Our solar collector would also be west-facing, so not optimal either.
Our plot is not really "small" either... it covers 905 m² (9,743 sq ft). The problem is that a drinking water pipeline runs over the land from north to south, and nothing except paving is allowed to be built within 2.5 meters (8 feet) on either side of it. Otherwise, we would have opted for a ground collector...
How deep is the drinking water pipe located due to the "overbuilding"? The collectors are installed at a depth of 1.50 – 1.80 m (5 – 6 feet). This way, you can leave an embankment where the pipe runs and lay the pipes closer on either side of it.
There are also other options for geothermal energy, such as trench collectors, energy fences, and spiral coils (just Google these terms and you will find plenty of information).
For example, we use compact collectors instead of "standard" surface collectors; maybe those could work for you as well.
There are also other options for geothermal energy, such as trench collectors, energy fences, and spiral coils (just Google these terms and you will find plenty of information).
For example, we use compact collectors instead of "standard" surface collectors; maybe those could work for you as well.
D
Doc.Schnaggls2 Dec 2014 15:59Basti2709 schrieb:
Is an air-to-water heat pump not the same as the air heat pump I described above? Basically, with a fan in front of the house that extracts heat from the air? Not exactly. An air-to-air heat pump extracts heating energy from the air and transfers the heat using air as the medium (blower) into the house. This is sufficient for passive houses.
An air-to-water heat pump also extracts heating energy from the air but transfers the heat using water as the medium (e.g., conventional underfloor heating) into the house. This is sufficient for "standard" houses (such as KfW 70, etc.).
Both basically operate with the "fan" you mentioned. This "fan" essentially works like a refrigerator running in reverse. The compressor unit can either be installed outdoors or in the basement.
Best regards,
Dirk
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