ᐅ Planning Light Switches for a (Pass-Through) Kitchen Between Dining and Living Areas

Dear community,

I am feeling a bit confused and uncertain:

We have purchased a new build house (in the Netherlands) where some elements, like the small entrance area and the “pass-through kitchen,” are definitely not ideal and represent a compromise. I have attached the standard electrical plan along with a few changes we would like to make. When you walk down the stairs, there is only one light switch to turn off the first floor light (h), but no switch to turn on the ground floor lights. All light switches for the ground floor (c) (d) (e) and (f) are located near the entrance area at the bottom, a few meters away from the stairs (so you have to walk a few meters in the dark).

Is it sensible to position the additional (d) (e) and relocated (f) switches as shown here?

The idea is that you are basically standing in the kitchen when you come down the stairs, so you can switch on these “visible” lights (d) and (e), or if you want to go into the living room, the corresponding light switch (f) is just around the corner, as if the living room were a separate room.

I am unsure if this will be practical, especially since switch (f) is around the corner and I am not sure whether the kitchen light should be the one you want to turn on here (instead of the living room light (f) and/or the dining table light (c) being positioned here—right at (h)).

I have considered five other (discarded) ideas but would be very grateful for your input!

Thanks in advance,

Kasper

Sounds like a very sensible installation...

What matters is what offers you the best use. To add another idea: Would a motion sensor be something for you that monitors the lower stair area and turns on a light there? This might be the simplest solution in terms of effort and could eliminate that dark spot.

Thank you for the quick response and feedback!

Ganneff schrieb:

To add another idea: Would a motion detector work for you, monitoring the lower staircase area and turning on a light there? That might be the easiest solution and eliminate the dark spot.

Unfortunately, this is not offered as an option by the developer and is probably not feasible without significant costs, if at all. Only moving switches and/or adding extra switches...

We have already shared the plan shown here with the developer, who wasn’t very helpful in this regard ("we’ll do whatever you want"), so I’m starting to have last-minute doubts about whether we might have overlooked something important or if there is a clearly better solution.

Thanks again and best regards,
Kasper

Oh, wait, question: Has this already been built, or not yet? I read your first message as if it was already built. New, yes, but basically finished, and now you’re just making a few changes.

If it’s still in the construction phase, then effort is much less of an issue (whether the cables go left or right doesn’t matter that much). In that case, I would generally go for a fully smart system with fewer switches and more presence and motion detectors—but judging by how you describe the builder, they probably won’t be a fan of that.

Then you would at least have a switch upstairs to turn off the lights downstairs (or a two-way switch for a light that only covers the stairs), as well as switches at the bottom of the stairs for upstairs, possibly stair lighting, and at least for the kitchen area. The last one would then be a two-way switch with the one at the entrance—you want to be able to switch from both points.

And if the house is actually still being built—make sure you get at least one additional lighting outlet in the living room (which can be switched separately), not just one central fixture. That’s hopelessly outdated, way too little. Possibly also outlets on the walls—or at least installed near them in the ceiling. These days, it’s rare to have just “one central light” only; usually, there are more lights on the walls, in different parts of the room, possibly indirect lighting on the walls. In the kitchen, you also want more than one light “centered above”; here, kitchen planning and lighting inside or on cabinets can help a lot.

Also, the number of power outlets, as it is in the plan right now, is quite limited. Think about all the devices you typically have around a TV nowadays.

Hello!

Ganneff schrieb:

Oh, moment, question: Has this been built already, or not yet?

Not built yet, but every special request is expensive – 380 EUR for an additional light outlet with switch, 190 EUR for a two-way switch, 310 EUR for an extra double socket – and to be honest, we don’t know if we will live here “forever.” So the idea is to keep it minimal, even though I fully understand that more sockets and additional (wall) lights would be practical and nice.

- Switch (h) is a two-way switch for the light on the first floor/stairs and can be operated from both the ground floor and the first floor near the stairs.
- Switches (d) and (e) for the kitchen are both two-way switches located near the stairs and the entrance area.
- Switch (f) for the living room is also a two-way switch at the garden exit (leading to car and bike).
- Switch (c) for the dining table is only at the dining area.

Floor lamps with their own switches and power strips will, of course, be necessary.

Best regards, Kasper

Nice prices, yes. Depending on the wiring and effort involved, yes, but still quite reasonable.

Alright. For a minimal solution, your description sounds sufficient. Definitely keep a switch position at the bottom of the stairs as planned; not having that would be wrong. Regarding your initial question about whether option f) around the corner makes sense or not – well, only you can decide that. On the one hand, you want to have a switch inside the room (which is expected when you’re in the space). On the other hand, if you come from upstairs and want to go straight into the living room, it can be annoying to have to switch in front of the stairs, take a step, and switch again. Consider making f switchable from both sides, so add an extra switch for the living room at the stairs.

But looking at the plan – from the kitchen unit on the stove side towards the living room. How often will that happen? Is it practical to always have to walk all the way over there first?

A presence/motion sensor could work well here. Not through your builder, but this strongly sounds like something you want to add smart features to afterward. With Shelly, Homematic, or one of the other systems. If that’s too expensive from the builder, this is an alternative that might not be as perfect as doing it “right from the start,” but it’s easy to retrofit with relatively low cost and effort. There are also plenty of push buttons/switches/etc. that work wirelessly and where missing control points can be retrofitted easily.