ᐅ Extension and Renovation: Architect’s Fees Phases 1–4

Gerddieter schrieb:

The HOAI is no longer binding – just negotiate the fee directly with your architect.

There is an offer from the architect. What good would it do to try to push their fee lower, other than weakening their motivation?

Keep in mind: when working with existing buildings, neither a beginner nor someone who usually works on new construction plans is really suitable. It all comes down to expertise, which has both value and a price. A good architect "earns" money for the client during design phase 5. As a (re)building client, you are investing in the quality of a livable asset with lasting value. Acting like a discount-driven consumer used to getting bargains is completely out of place here. Trying to lower the price without signaling a lack of appreciation is hardly possible. But as I said, I wouldn’t hire this architect anyway. Anyone offering only design phases 1 through 4 for work on existing buildings disqualifies themselves or reveals their unsuitability. Design phase 5 is critical to the second half of the project—it determines success or failure.

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11ant schrieb:

Could you describe the building type: is it a 'one-and-a-half-story' with 70/75 sqm (750/800 sq ft) on the ground floor and a converted pitched roof without knee walls?

You don’t need just any architect, but specifically one experienced in building refurbishments. Phase 5 (detailed design) is particularly important—you always pay for it, either as a planning fee or as a lesson in improvisation costs. To comply with the law by just hiring a "rubber-stamper" and awarding construction contracts without a tender would be naive madness.

That wouldn’t be the same scope of work; it would require significantly less planning.

11ant schrieb:

Could you describe the building type: is it a 'one-and-a-half-story' with 70/75 sqm (750/800 sq ft) on the ground floor and a converted pitched roof without knee walls?

You don’t need just any architect, but specifically one experienced in building refurbishments. Phase 5 (detailed design) is particularly important—you always pay for it, either as a planning fee or as a lesson in improvisation costs. To comply with the law by just hiring a "rubber-stamper" and awarding construction contracts without a tender would be naive madness.

That wouldn’t be the same scope of work; it would require significantly less planning.

Hello and thank you very much for your reply!

Unfortunately, simply increasing the knee walls is not an option. It’s a much more complex project.

The house has about 55 sqm (590 sq ft) of internal floor area (with external walls 30-40 cm (12-16 inches) thick) and consists of a basement, ground floor, an upper floor with sloping ceilings (starting at about 1.40 m (4 ft 7 in) wall height), and an attic. This means the walls on the upper floor need to be raised, a new floor ceiling constructed, as well as a new roof framework, so that the attic level becomes a fully usable storey.

The roof is currently a fairly steep half-hipped roof.

The architect says that he now mostly works on renovations because there are few building plots available near us and land prices are quite high (850-1000 €/sqm (79-93 $/sq ft)). He also lives nearby. His contract optionally includes further construction phases, but from our conversation, it sounded like that is not necessarily common practice. I had assumed that the detailed construction planning would then be done by a timber construction company that would carry out the project.

Regarding the construction cost as the basis for calculating the fee, I had assumed that only the planned changes—i.e., the vertical extension (plus connection to the existing building)—would be taken into account, since it is, in my opinion, not relevant for the extension planning whether, for example, the screed is renewed on the ground floor or the windows are replaced, or a technical room with a heat pump is set up in the basement. Perhaps that was naive of me.

We will definitely have the contract explained to us again by the architect.

If the project exceeds our budget, we will probably have to settle for renovating the existing building.

Good luck and thank you for your time and expertise!

The description sounds quite troubling (almost a typical case of "building new would have been cheaper"). Exterior walls of 30 to 40 cm (about 12 to 16 inches) would be unusual (those of us who remember the 1920s will recall *LOL* it was a time of hyperinflation and economic crisis). Typical exterior wall thicknesses were 38 cm (15 inches) in the basement and 25 cm (10 inches) on the raised ground floor (less often: the ground floor). Knee walls were very rare; I suspect what’s meant is a dwarf wall, but 140 cm (55 inches) makes me suspicious. It would be helpful to upload plans or, alternatively, photos. It’s best to also show the plot (ideally a cadastral map, or alternatively an aerial photo with a diagonal length of about 100 m (330 feet)), so we can develop extension concepts here. Adding additional floors will be a money pit. Feel free to use my signature (but beware: long wait times for specialists!).

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We completely renovated a house from 1934 and added an extension. Naturally, the architect was paid for both projects. However, he only covered design phases 1 to 4. After that, a construction manager took over, someone he regularly collaborates with. In our case, this worked well because many implementation details were decided directly on site. Design phase 5 was essentially handled as a joint effort, with close communication between both. Occasionally, the construction manager asked the architect for detailed execution plans on specific aspects, but most issues were resolved with the craftsmen on site.

There were no difficulties with this approach. On the contrary, no one faced a problem that hadn’t been considered beforehand, since there were no fixed plans anyway ;-)

Both the architect and construction manager had previously renovated several buildings in our housing development, which was actually the key factor in our choice. The architect himself lives in one of these houses. The individual trades were carried out by local companies active in the area. A company specialized in new builds would likely have struggled on this site, and many things might have gone wrong because a standard formula would simply have led nowhere here.

Siedler34 schrieb:

At least in our case, this worked well because many implementation decisions were made directly on site. The design development phase (phase 5) was essentially handled in close cooperation between the two parties, maintaining very close contact. Occasionally, the site manager asked the architect for detailed execution plans on specific elements, but most issues were resolved with the craftsmen on site.
There were no difficulties with this approach. On the contrary, no one faced a problem that hadn’t been anticipated, since there were no detailed plans available beforehand ;-)

I would rather put it like this: "the challenges that inevitably arose from this approach were handled smoothly by those involved without complaint." Phase 5 of the project (design development) is a pre-construction phase—after all, phases 6 and 7 build upon it—and is therefore generally not suited to being replaced by an online phone consultation. Congratulations on your success despite this, but it should not be taken as a best practice—more like a “kids, don’t try this at home” textbook example. Many road users also manage to get through the day without seat belts or helmets and still make it to dinner—but that’s not the example we want to follow. Perhaps it’s just a Protestant trait of mine not to rely solely on divine assistance.

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P.S.: By the way, this is the most common misunderstanding when renovating an existing building: that the service phases "1 to 4" can be reduced to "only 4" because the building is already there. Not at all. In fact, the design phase 3 is often much more complex and demanding than starting from a blank sheet in new construction.

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