ᐅ Floor plan, house layout EFW 150 m², basement with granny flat – feedback welcomed
Created on: 29 Dec 2024 00:08
N
njAiiii
Hello dear forum,
we have been quietly following along for some time, knowing that we will eventually build our own home. Thanks in advance to everyone who regularly posts here and shares their knowledge. This is very helpful for laypeople like us. We already appreciate you taking the time to focus on our project and critically review it. The moment is getting closer. The plot is secured. It is located near a protected landscape area with a gentle slope. The soil report indicates occasional hydrostatic pressure.
How will we proceed?
What do we want to build?
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 650m2 (7000 sq ft approx.)
Slope: Yes, gentle (scale 1:250, see elevation in attachment; 1m (3.3 ft) over approx. 10x11m)
Floor area ratio (FAR): No formal development plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible after approval by building authority
Building coverage ratio: No formal plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible
Building setback lines and boundaries:
- 5m (16 ft) from the street
- 3m (10 ft) from neighboring properties
Edge building: On both sides and opposite along the street
Number of parking spaces: Probably 3 required (we could move the house back so parking is directly in front)
Number of floors:
- Technically 2 floors,
- But visually aligned with surrounding buildings, so a 1.5-story appearance desired
Roof type: Gable roof with 30-40cm (12-16 inches) overhang
Style: Modern
Orientation: Southeast, but surrounded by many mature historic trees from east to west along the plot boundary
Maximum heights/restrictions: Neighboring buildings, street alignment
Additional requirements: For flat roof, 1m (3.3 ft) setback from street and sides
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style: Modern
Roof pitch:
- Gable roof between 25-33°
- Originally flat roof to the left neighbor, now gable roof preferred for budget, maintenance, and required setbacks
Building type: Single-family house with separate apartment
Basement: Yes
Stories: "1.5"
Knee wall height: 1.90m (6.2 ft) (no official requirement); we want to minimize sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: 4 (2 adults age 40, 2 children aged 4 and 1) + 1 family member for the separate apartment
Space requirements for ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
- Originally 141m2 (1519 sq ft) net usable area without circulation space
GF:
- Open living/dining area with pantry
- Office (possibly bedroom later in life)
- Shower bathroom
- Entrance hall
UF:
- 2 children’s rooms from 13m2 (140 sq ft) each
- Bedroom as small as possible + walk-in closet with standard wardrobes
- Bathroom with T-layout, shower, tub, toilet
- Second workspace
Office: Family use or home office?
- Home office twice a week, about 3-4 days out of 5 at home
Visitors per year: One overnight guest per quarter
Open or closed architecture: Open
Conservative or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen with island: Yes
Number of dining seats: 4-6, extendable up to 10 (2m (6.5 ft) table extendable to 3m (10 ft))
Fireplace: No
Music/sound system wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage/Carport: Prefabricated garage 3x7m (10x23 ft), possibly 3x9m (10x30 ft)
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes (vegetables, fruit, cistern)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are excluded:
House Design
Designer:
What do you particularly like and why?
What do you dislike and why?
Price estimate by architect/planner: $3,300 - $3,500 per m2 (approx. $307 - $325 per sq ft), total approx. $700,000 - $800,000 plus additional costs
Personal maximum budget including fittings: $750,000 plus additional construction costs
Preferred heating technology: sustainable + underfloor heating (comfort); geothermal possible but based on current research not cost-effective
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes?
-cannot give up:
-could give up: probably everything else
Why does the design look like it does now? For example:
Standard plan from designer? No; from architect
- We shared all our ideas and preferences with the architect and discussed them beforehand
- This is the second iteration; earlier option had flat roof dormer with southwest children’s room, which we discarded; roof pitch probably 25° now
Which wishes did the architect implement?
What do you think about it, especially focusing on current pain points:
Due to the maximum number of attachments allowed, we couldn’t add an aerial photo of the tree cover. There are three large deciduous trees directly to the southeast and on the southwest side about two chestnut trees and around 15 pines from the 1950s. We have no worries about summer heat protection 😉 – on the contrary: enlarging the house footprint would cost us garden and especially daylight.
Feel free to ask any questions.
We look forward to your feedback and thank you in advance.
we have been quietly following along for some time, knowing that we will eventually build our own home. Thanks in advance to everyone who regularly posts here and shares their knowledge. This is very helpful for laypeople like us. We already appreciate you taking the time to focus on our project and critically review it. The moment is getting closer. The plot is secured. It is located near a protected landscape area with a gentle slope. The soil report indicates occasional hydrostatic pressure.
How will we proceed?
- Purchase plot, conduct soil survey
- Position and design house on plot with architect (phases 1-3)
- Invitation to bid for general contractor and individual trades for interior work, followed by comparison
- Construction with expert supervision
What do we want to build?
- Single-family house with separate apartment (for family and mainly for tax reasons, especially for the various depreciation options, therefore also with QNG [quality seal for sustainable building])
- Why basement? To maximize garden space, add storage area, and supposedly take advantage of the slope
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 650m2 (7000 sq ft approx.)
Slope: Yes, gentle (scale 1:250, see elevation in attachment; 1m (3.3 ft) over approx. 10x11m)
Floor area ratio (FAR): No formal development plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible after approval by building authority
Building coverage ratio: No formal plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible
Building setback lines and boundaries:
- 5m (16 ft) from the street
- 3m (10 ft) from neighboring properties
Edge building: On both sides and opposite along the street
Number of parking spaces: Probably 3 required (we could move the house back so parking is directly in front)
Number of floors:
- Technically 2 floors,
- But visually aligned with surrounding buildings, so a 1.5-story appearance desired
Roof type: Gable roof with 30-40cm (12-16 inches) overhang
Style: Modern
Orientation: Southeast, but surrounded by many mature historic trees from east to west along the plot boundary
Maximum heights/restrictions: Neighboring buildings, street alignment
Additional requirements: For flat roof, 1m (3.3 ft) setback from street and sides
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style: Modern
Roof pitch:
- Gable roof between 25-33°
- Originally flat roof to the left neighbor, now gable roof preferred for budget, maintenance, and required setbacks
Building type: Single-family house with separate apartment
Basement: Yes
Stories: "1.5"
Knee wall height: 1.90m (6.2 ft) (no official requirement); we want to minimize sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: 4 (2 adults age 40, 2 children aged 4 and 1) + 1 family member for the separate apartment
Space requirements for ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
- Originally 141m2 (1519 sq ft) net usable area without circulation space
GF:
- Open living/dining area with pantry
- Office (possibly bedroom later in life)
- Shower bathroom
- Entrance hall
UF:
- 2 children’s rooms from 13m2 (140 sq ft) each
- Bedroom as small as possible + walk-in closet with standard wardrobes
- Bathroom with T-layout, shower, tub, toilet
- Second workspace
Office: Family use or home office?
- Home office twice a week, about 3-4 days out of 5 at home
Visitors per year: One overnight guest per quarter
Open or closed architecture: Open
Conservative or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen with island: Yes
Number of dining seats: 4-6, extendable up to 10 (2m (6.5 ft) table extendable to 3m (10 ft))
Fireplace: No
Music/sound system wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage/Carport: Prefabricated garage 3x7m (10x23 ft), possibly 3x9m (10x30 ft)
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes (vegetables, fruit, cistern)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are excluded:
- We are an early riser (Larch + Owl), so with two kids (maybe 3 someday), a second shower bathroom is essential
- Open living/dining area as the heart of the home: We cook a lot and enjoy it; this is the social center
- Standard sizes where possible (wardrobe widths, doors, windows, house shape, etc.)
- If reasonable, include basement
- Covered walkway from house entrance to garage (still discussing presentation; garage likely needs attic height >3m (10 ft), which may require an easement on the boundary)
- We will very likely install a “glass awning” on the terrace afterwards
- Photovoltaic system
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Ventilation system
- Open living-dining area (L-shaped)
- Light-filled rooms
- Maximum knee wall height
- Maximized ceiling height on GF/UF
- Living/dining area with floor-to-ceiling windows
- Daylight bathrooms
- Dining table 2m (6.5 ft) long (extendable to 3m (10 ft))
- Modern look with individual accents
- Low roof pitch
- Interior doors at least 1m (3.3 ft) wide
- Shower bathroom on the ground floor
- Walk-in closet
- Pantry also as storage room
- Staircase not directly at entrance door (airlock/dirty corridor)
- Office potentially usable as bedroom
- Kitchen island at least 2m (6.5 ft) wide
- Flat roof dormer and/or bay window
- Second workspace (bedroom, landing, or similar)
- Bathroom with T-layout
- Daylight in landing
- Basement apartment
- Separate entrance to basement apartment
- Lift-and-slide door
- Maximize southwest garden area
- Partially covered terrace
- View axis from hallway to garden
- Daylight in walk-in closet
- External access to basement
- Laundry chute
- Window seat
- Basic smart home features
House Design
Designer:
- Architect, phases 1-3
What do you particularly like and why?
- The ground floor overall; many wishes fulfilled, some highlights
- Bedroom and walk-in closet; probably adding a door in between later
- Landing staircase, view axis, kitchen windows, entrance hall
What do you dislike and why?
- GF office faces southwest instead of east or southeast
- GF living room: fixed glazing towards southwest too small
- GF living room: lift-and-slide door too large, couch doesn’t fit well
- GF living room: considering glazing the entire wall
- GF corridor quite long
- UF sizes depend on GF; rooms (except bedroom and closet) are rather large
- UF bedroom faces southwest instead of north
- UF considering all windows floor-to-ceiling except stair and landing for light and appearance
- Garage not directly attached to house due to access to separate apartment
- Separate apartment quite complex
- Initially we drafted an "L-shaped" house similar to post here, but could not solve circulation areas properly; currently seeing them as a “necessary evil.”
Price estimate by architect/planner: $3,300 - $3,500 per m2 (approx. $307 - $325 per sq ft), total approx. $700,000 - $800,000 plus additional costs
Personal maximum budget including fittings: $750,000 plus additional construction costs
Preferred heating technology: sustainable + underfloor heating (comfort); geothermal possible but based on current research not cost-effective
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes?
-cannot give up:
- Separate apartment (for family and tax benefits)
- Office (need a dedicated setup at least for one person; also for guests and as retreat)
- Two children’s rooms
-could give up: probably everything else
Why does the design look like it does now? For example:
Standard plan from designer? No; from architect
- We shared all our ideas and preferences with the architect and discussed them beforehand
- This is the second iteration; earlier option had flat roof dormer with southwest children’s room, which we discarded; roof pitch probably 25° now
Which wishes did the architect implement?
- Most of them, but not all possible
What do you think about it, especially focusing on current pain points:
- Actually, our space requirements are smaller, but we cannot fit that on the ground floor to align with upstairs (difference about 10-15 m2 (110-160 sq ft)); kids’ rooms and circulation spaces including landing could be smaller
- Window area not yet optimal in living/dining, office, and large upstairs living area; considering 1.10m (3.6 ft) fixed glazing and 2.50m (8.2 ft) lift-and-slide door
- House feels somewhat "buried"; considering raising overall or at least GF + UF by 40-80cm (16-32 inches) above ground level
- The whole topic of “house/garage connection,” earthworks, and plot landscaping is very complex and time-consuming
- No external blinds (raffstores) possible on landing due to knee wall and roof
- Separate “dirty corridor” and staircase; could be a minor disadvantage for aging, might make separate UF rental impossible in future
Due to the maximum number of attachments allowed, we couldn’t add an aerial photo of the tree cover. There are three large deciduous trees directly to the southeast and on the southwest side about two chestnut trees and around 15 pines from the 1950s. We have no worries about summer heat protection 😉 – on the contrary: enlarging the house footprint would cost us garden and especially daylight.
Feel free to ask any questions.
We look forward to your feedback and thank you in advance.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
Here is a post from someone who wants to realize something similar.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/eckgrundstueck-mit-einliegerwohnung.48277/
There are already some quite good suggestions there without a basement. I have already looked at that before. I also understand the reasoning. In our case, the plot faces the neighbor’s development and house on the northeast side. In addition, the garage would be right in front. We would also have to give up significantly more garden space. But the points are fundamentally valid. We will have to think through the options again. In the end, the concern is that there will be a lot of house and very little garden, especially since the existing trees along the eastern and southern boundaries take up a lot of space.
nordanney schrieb:
Such a granny flat or secondary apartment only makes sense if you are near a university or building really in or directly by a big city. Otherwise, it remains a constant inconvenience for family use, as it is hardly rentable to outsiders.
From a tax perspective, it only makes sense if you are already quite old. Once depreciation is used up, it barely pays off—unless you are heading toward retirement and no longer need to offset expenses. With the combination of apartment quality and cost-benefit ratio (tax-wise), it is honestly too expensive for me. It’s in the Ruhr area. The university is 30 minutes door-to-door by public transit.
From a tax perspective, it makes sense exactly when you pay a lot of taxes. You can reset depreciation after 10 years with the “swing.” Renting to third parties is what allows deduction of many costs. But let’s just assume taxes are not considered here.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
You still have room to improve. The neighbors are taller. You have plenty of excavation material from the basement. Raise the house and spread the excavation on your plot. Then you will also have more light in the secondary apartment. What would your recommendation be for raising it?
What impact would that have on the site modeling and the cost of foundation and retaining structures?
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
My secondary apartment is 80m2 (860 sq ft) and is on the ground and first floors. I wouldn’t have even dared to offer the basement apartment to the S.-parents. As mentioned, from our point of view, the living situation in one case is currently not significantly better. But it is clear that a secondary apartment on the ground floor is more appealing.
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
Does it pay off???
You can deduct a maximum of 40/190ths. Don’t forget the rent must be taxed. In our calculations, it does pay off. In fact, over time, you recover the 40/190ths entirely.
The secondary apartment is like a small table for the cat / mother-in-law’s seat. Vacation at the sanctuary?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Jasmin schrieb:The rooms here seem to have been planned with ceilings at about 2.70 / 2.67 m (8 ft 10 in / 8 ft 9 in), so a lintel height of 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in) — which means roughly a 60 cm (24 in) difference — already makes a significant contribution to darkening the ceiling area. I consider clear ceiling heights of 2.50 m (8 ft 2 in) and window lintels 30 to 35 cm (12 to 14 in) below the ceiling to be more advisable.
Good morning, I’d like to ask about the window heights! They are important to me. We messed up ours, and anyone still in the planning phase can avoid having an overly large lintel that disrupts the appearance. What ceiling height was planned? Is it correct that the windows are 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in) tall!?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
njAiiii schrieb:
If I were living alone and valued being close to nature, I probably wouldn’t have much of a problem with it. Looking at alternatives in our area, this hole doesn’t even qualify as a hole. Nearby, there are several granny flats, some partially underground. Hardly any of them have a terrace or garden access.
Regarding wanting to rent it out—what difference would that make? Move the granny flat entirely to the ground floor? That may be true, that’s your perspective, but since you asked, answers can vary.
njAiiii schrieb:
That’s why it’s not really “with,” but rather “not alone” and very close by. If you were single and over 70 and had to use the basement stairs next to your family’s or a family member’s single-family home to access your isolated apartment, or alternatively go up to the fifth floor of your familiar busy environment—what would you choose?
A basement is always a basement. From the pictures you showed, it’s not clear in the plans either. There’s also a difference between seeing a photo of a panoramic window and a regular double patio door.
Possibly, you could gradually or by terracing move it simply to the edge of the property. There isn’t much space left in the southeast anyway. You also need to consider exactly where the house will be placed because parking remains an issue.
Maybe simply create access for the family member via the shared stairwell, making it accessible from inside? That would feel like an improvement of 100%?!
njAiiii schrieb:
If I understand correctly, for you “plan bottom” means next to the bathroom. I tried a rough sketch in Paint without expanding the room. Did you mean something like this attached? I would probably remove the walls to create more usable space.
njAiiii schrieb:
We would use that as a pantry/storage room and not put everything automatically in the basement. It’s only about 1 meter wide (3 feet). Not much fits there. The quicker storage option will probably be the office.
Cabinet doors (through the kitchen) aren’t comparable to normal doors. Either too narrow at 60 cm (24 inches) wide or double-leaf at 80 cm (31 inches) wide. The latter requires both hands to open. Here, it’s 60 cm (24 inches) marked, inside a cupboard—basically a narrow corridor. Try taking a broom out of there.
An average man’s shoulder width is around 52 cm (20.5 inches). If he’s carrying something, like a baking tray, his elbows stick out further. That means he spans more than 60 cm (24 inches) in width. For an average woman, it’s about 10 cm (4 inches) less. So, at least two people are needed to help someone with a baking tray get through this door. But it doesn’t have to be a baking tray—carrying everyday objects always requires a bit of sideways movement. You can get through the door, but it’s far from convenient.
njAiiii schrieb:
It’s multifunctional: working (too big for that purpose), guests (too rarely used alone), storage space (books, odds and ends), and possibly the basic concept is to convert it into a bedroom later in the 30+ m². Why is that idea so bad? The room can’t be furnished as a bedroom in a way that still allows easy access to even a simple wardrobe or around the bed.
The guest WC isn’t designed for comfortable use in old age either. All this works temporarily but not longer term.
The idea itself doesn’t really fit because, if you’re over 70 and facing this situation, you’d probably sell the whole thing and look for something more practical or be invited into a granny flat by one of your children.
Regarding the living area, although I wasn’t asked:
njAiiii schrieb:
How would you arrange access to the living area? That’s a matter of personal taste. Someone who doesn’t value the kitchen highly might dislike having it as an open, central communication space. Others can handle openness better, many prefer having doors for the option of separation, and so on.
njAiiii schrieb:
As mentioned, in one current case the living situation isn’t significantly better from our point of view. But it’s clear that a ground-floor granny flat is more appealing. From your point of view… what does the person affected say?
njAiiii schrieb:
It is multifunctional: workspace (clearly too large for that), guests (too rare on their own), storage space (books, odds and ends), and potentially converting the basic concept into a bedroom sometime in the 30s. Why is that idea so bad? Because the room is only 285 cm (about 9 feet 4 inches) wide, which is just enough for a double bed, but then there is no space left for a wardrobe.
njAiiii schrieb:
How would you arrange access to the living area? Another door next to the kitchen door leading to the living room, and then recess that wall? I would remove the pantry and then swap the living and cooking areas, so cooking/dining is next to the terrace. You have the basement for larger storage needs. The windows would need to be adjusted accordingly.
I also find the granny flat quite unusual and would consider the suggestion by @ypg.
kbt09 schrieb:
Swap living and kitchen, Right, that makes sense. I forgot there is no access to the garden from the south side.
H
hanghaus202329 Dec 2024 18:59If you raise the basement, the safety measures are reduced. With the architect’s design, however, the elevation can only be slightly increased, as the garage at the property line must comply with the 3 m (10 feet) height limit. Without the framework, it is possible to raise it more.
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