ᐅ Floor plan for a newly built two-story single-family house, 200 m² (2,150 sq ft)

11ant schrieb:

the stone mantra

I’ve read that too. By the way, I really like your humor, style, and perspective on the building world!

11ant schrieb:

As a former window manufacturer and later a dealer, I have also been on the supplier side of the construction industry.

I have a question about windows as well, and I would be very interested in your point of view. I’ll post it here in the next few days.

11ant schrieb:

here the confessions of repeat builders are recommended to be weighed twice as much as the assumptions of the general public joker average

Today I’ll try to find and read posts like these here in the forum.

However, I wonder if there isn’t some kind of filter at work. Because those who are happy and satisfied with their first, amateur-built house (like my parents and in-laws) don’t necessarily build again and, as ypg insightfully observed, later do not write about the outcome either.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

I’m getting the feeling that there’s a lack of understanding that other people have different ideas about “living and dwelling” and can be satisfied and happy in ways different from one’s own.

It’s actually the opposite. I feel that you (and not only you but many other “first-timers” here as well) bring rigid, problem-creating must-haves (like straight staircases, bay windows, floor-to-ceiling windows, sliding doors, etc.) that tend to interfere with a comfortable floor plan and sensible cost management—and then defend these points relentlessly as if others wished you wouldn’t have them. This seems to be a recurring theme in this forum!
What is really being pointed out are personal flair-traps experienced firsthand, and that, after all, is the essential purpose of such a forum. Unfortunately, though, I increasingly see (and I’m definitely not referring to you here) even moderately planned projects where I feel a strong compulsion for the original poster to receive applause. If that doesn’t happen, the thread often dies off and disappears without a trace...
It’s actually a lot of fun to think along with someone else’s project, and later you get to feel like a small part of it or that you helped someone. I especially appreciate when people live individually, but implementing thoughtless ideas just because, for example, an extra €5,000 (about $5,500) supposedly doesn’t matter is not individuality—it’s simply nonsense. For example, 5 sqm (about 55 sq ft) of extra hallway space will NOT make you happier; what might make you happier is a nice family vacation or a technical convenience you could provide your family with the money you’d otherwise waste.
Once you hear this kind of thing from multiple directions, you might check for yourself whether the people contradicting you are actually wrong drivers going the wrong way.
This discussion is neither hostile nor aggressive, so everything is fine from my perspective, but I do detect a tendency toward resistance to advice, which leads to “problems” in a forum like this with experienced homeowners.
It can simply be summarized: the expensive 200 sqm (about 2,150 sq ft) of living space you’re considering so far do not offer the living comfort one would expect for such a high price.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

That’s true, especially the straight staircase is apparently only efficient to integrate if you plan around it from the start and don’t have all sorts of other requirements for the entrance hall. A Harry Potter cupboard would at least provide storage space, but we don’t want that either.

My beloved staircase builder offers a, in my opinion, amazingly beautiful, very special suspended staircase at the same price, which I really wanted, and we tried everything in the floor plan to accommodate it. Eventually, I realized that this wish (almost greed) caused many other problems; today I find my earlier thoughts on this quite funny, including that I fell victim to my own dreaming and I’m happy with the actual staircase we have, which fits wonderfully into the house and floor plan.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

But we also have many people in our circle with more housing experience with whom we discuss the planning, and in these matters, we tend to trust their advice more.

That’s one way to do it, but my question would be: why do you do it this way? What makes a private acquaintance automatically a better adviser for me, a stranger interested in my project? For example, if I ask my neighbor who drives a BMW all-wheel drive for advice before buying a car, how likely is it that he will advise me against a BMW all-wheel drive even if he has issues with it himself? Very few would do that; housebuilding is just like fishing, hunting, and sex—people lie or exaggerate a lot, especially in their close circle, because that is exactly their comparison group. Envy is strongest in one’s personal immediate environment; the closer the relation, the greater the danger.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Whether the straight staircase is more important to me than saving space worth 10,000, 20,000, or even 30,000 euros, whether I prefer cleaning two washbasin faucets rather than one, or whether I want to put my dirty children in the shower downstairs or upstairs—all this is of course for us to decide in the end.

Sorry, but you probably don’t have 10,000, 20,000, or 30,000 euros (about $11,000, $22,000, or $33,000) lying around to just throw away without any benefit. Especially people who actually have 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 euros left over don’t do that; they invest it sensibly and precisely in living quality and not in randomly wasted, unnecessary living space where you might just put a Christmas tree someday.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

And that, based on how we intend to live in the house.

The famous “form follows function” did not come about by chance, and in my view, your current floor plan clearly still has a lot of functional potential. So far, I read it as: “mainly the way my head wants it follows function.”
The building authority will probably approve it, the company will build it, you will live in it, and you will always be able to say: “That’s exactly how I always wanted it, and luckily I resisted those half-baked, stubborn housebuilding commentators.” That’s what my former neighbor said too, who had planned a fully darkened hallway himself in full conviction.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

I don’t allow myself any illusions (well, maybe a little). The first plan wasn’t perfect. The last plan I posted is better, but it’s still not close to perfect. Perfection would mean that all our current and future needs are met. Even separating what is really a “need” and what is just a “wish without deeper benefit” is already difficult for the next five years.

...so your own initial drafts were actually quite perfect after all, weren’t they?

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Because those who live happily and contentedly in their first, amateur-level house (such as my parents and in-laws) don’t necessarily build again and—just as ypg aptly observed—don’t write anything about the outcome afterwards.

People live happily in tents or unhappily in pool villas; that has absolutely nothing to do with the house. Another mistaken belief derived from this would be to consider those who never change or leave a house they once built as happier; on the contrary, I would tend to see a more satisfied life in people willing to change.

MachsSelbst schrieb:

Why bother? After building a house you have enough to do... do students tell their teacher what came of them?

Apples and oranges: The teacher is paid and has a teaching mandate.
Here people meet voluntarily (unlike school attendance) and help like-minded individuals with their own experiences or to avoid similar mistakes.
Looking for a reason to avoid giving me a “thank you” in the form of feedback on the project outcome after receiving help here never occurred to me. I see it as a healthy give and take and would consider it rude because others’ time was gladly used beforehand. However, I recognize that what I consider basic decency is becoming less and less important, which is reflected in the declining quality of this forum. Older participants here remember the many open and exciting discussions including respective concluding results. At a topping-out ceremony, involved people are invited out of appreciation; you always find time for this if you want to or understand its meaning.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

I’ve read that too. By the way, I really like your humor, style, and perspective on the building world!

Only here or also where it says "Das Steinemantra des 11anten" and "Hier schreibt der 11ant"?

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

I also have a question about windows, and I would be very interested in your point of view on that. I’ll post it in the next few days.

Preferably there as well.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Today I’ll try to find and read similar posts here in the forum.
However, I wonder if some kind of filter is at work here. Because people who live happily and content with their first, non-professional house (like my parents and parents-in-law) don’t necessarily build again or, as ypg rightly observed, later write anything about the outcome.

My last move had nothing to do with architecture. The landlords were people whose neighborhood I honestly do not miss, and the new apartment suits me better in layout and size at a roughly equivalent location. I would never consider keeping a house that is too large for my household just because I own it. Stagnation is unhealthy; dementia research will confirm this in the future. As a planning consultant, I have enough interesting projects without having to constantly build new living environments for myself. The next reason to move will probably be to be closer to grandchildren.

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https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/

11ant schrieb:

Only here or also where "The Steinemantra of the 11ant" and "Here writes the 11ant" are posted?

I meant the separate blog/the website.

11ant schrieb:

Preferably there as well.

Was that a nudge to contact me for a homeowner consultation, or are you suggesting to post the question in another forum?

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

I meant the separate blog/website.

I'm glad to hear that. Unfortunately, the possibilities for dialogue there are still hardly being used.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Was that meant as a nudge to get in touch with me for homeowner consultation, or is it about posting the question in another forum?

I can’t talk you out of feeling that it’s not necessary.

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https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/

Arauki11 schrieb:

It can be broken down simply. The expensive 200 m² (2,150 sq ft) of living space you have in mind so far does not provide the level of comfort one would expect at such a high price.

Thanks again for this honest assessment.

Arauki11 schrieb:

People can live happily in tents or unhappily in pool villas; that has nothing to do with a house. Another mistaken belief that could be derived from this would be to consider those who never change or leave a house built at some point in time as happier because they are always happy; on the contrary, I would tend to see people open to change as living a more content life.

Yes, that is certainly true. In my examples, I only meant that the houses created in the cases I know of did not lead to a reduction in quality of life.
Personally, I feel the same way about change, and I think that makes me view the whole thing a bit more relaxed. After all, I’m definitely not building for eternity. Who knows if we won’t move abroad or back to southern Germany in 10 years.

Until then, I’m trying to avoid accidentally building an oversized tent while aiming to build a decent house.