ᐅ Floor plan for a newly built two-story single-family house, 200 m² (2,150 sq ft)

kbt09 schrieb:

A trapped parking space definitely warrants a separate assessment. If two cars are used regularly, trapped parking spaces can sometimes be very impractical.
(...)

No, not really. Four high-quality child seats cost around 1,000 EUR, and with that, both vehicles can be used without any loss of comfort. A larger plot of land is significantly more expensive.

The children's rooms are a dream—something every child deserves. Please don't cut corners there.

About the design:
There are several things I don’t like. I don’t even like the exterior views.
But it’s not about personal preferences. It’s also not about what I personally dislike.
However, for example, narrow vertical windows don’t bring as much daylight across the room as a wide window can. Floor-to-ceiling windows are, in my opinion, unsuitable for bedrooms because of privacy concerns. Here, there is even a floor-to-ceiling window in the bathroom facing the street – so a pleated blind (do people still use those?) will need to be planned already. Child 2 will never feel comfortable in the room wearing pajamas. The same applies to the west side (Child 1 and bedroom).
The east and north facades look asymmetrical because of the window placements.
Inside, on the ground floor: what immediately stands out negatively to me are the size of the living area (distance between TV and sofa), kitchen layout, and the spiral corridor leading to the wardrobe closet.
The open void space is pointless, let’s be honest. The spiral corridor to the closet means there is no usable space in front of the closet, which is exactly where you get dressed and undressed. This setup is acceptable for a toilet, but note the ventilation on the upper floor!
I find the kitchen very awkward, with a lot of walking space but no ergonomics—it’s like you could dance in there. The dining table is placed in front of the patio door, and the relatively large living area feels uncomfortable because you have to arrange the furniture and TV across a long distance.
There is hardly any connection to the garden from inside.
A pantry there is possible but…
Upper floor: in the bathroom, the distance between bathtub and washbasin is too small, creating a tripping hazard on the way to the toilet. With four people, you get in each other’s way. I’ve already commented on the windows.

Suggestions/improvements without measurements:
Ground floor: change stair rotation by 180 degrees and reduce it to a quarter turn. Then remove the wall between the stairs and wardrobe. Reposition the office window so a cupboard could fit behind the door.
Remove the pantry and reduce kitchen size. Create more space for the dining area. Omit the southern living room window (it won’t bring in much light anyway) and rotate TV and sofa accordingly. The fixed window on the west side feels like a style mismatch here.
Upper floor: straighten the children’s room walls. The added space benefits from this. Remove the built-in closet and use that space as access to the dressing room. Change the bedroom access and rotate the bedhead against the exterior wall.
Pay close attention to the toilet ventilation! With a bit of care, the bathroom fixtures can be improved, but I refer again to the window placements, which among other things don’t flatter the front façade.

However, I think the entrance area is already quite messed up, so it might be better to start from scratch.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

What is the etiquette regarding this—should such discussions stay in this thread or is it better to create a separate topic?

Netiquette... cute.
But actually, it’s preferred to keep the entire project in one thread. However, if you have specific technical questions that are not directly related to the project as a whole, those can be posted separately to target the right respondents more easily.

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Price estimate according to architect/planner: 565 thousand EUR
Personal price limit for the house, including fixtures and fittings: 730 thousand EUR (including garden, carport, photovoltaics, kitchen, ancillary costs)

They say 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) times 3,000 EUR just for the house. Lower Saxony tends to be somewhat more affordable (as are the wages).

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

Actually, we don’t just have an estimate—we already have an offer at this price on the table, without any significant owner-contributed work. We are still expecting an additional 20 thousand EUR for extra services and 20 thousand EUR for selections,

What kind of supplier is this?

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

bargain a decent amount

On what basis would the builder reduce their calculated price?

HaseUndIgel schrieb:

But so far I have only calculated 30 thousand EUR for additional construction costs.

Oh, which county would that be?

MachsSelbst schrieb:

The children's rooms are a dream come true; every child should have that. Please don’t save money on this.

The parents wish that for their children. The children don’t care.

Hi everyone, there are so many responses coming in that it’s almost overwhelming and hard to keep up. Wonderful! And at Christmas, no less!

I’ll try to provide a proper reply that acknowledges the effort of everyone who has responded here. However, I might have missed some points or follow-up questions.

I’ve already spent the last two hours trying to “fix” the ground floor. Patching rarely leads to good results, but in terms of the entrance area, it’s more of a rough approximation to the original model home design. The coat corner is still a bit pieced together.

The new ground floor plan is attached. Unfortunately, I only have the architect’s designs as PDFs and haven’t yet made the effort to redraw them in proper software. So I tinkered around in the PDF. Unfortunately, this means that the already sparse dimensions are now even fewer and the square meter figures are no longer indicated.

One change we made was a reduction of 0.5 meters (20 inches) along the east/west axis. The house is still huge, but it helps a bit.

MachsSelbst schrieb:

The living room wastes a lot of space that basically only serves as a dance floor

Or as a play area for the kids in the living room. In December, the Christmas tree can go there, and the rest of the year perhaps a reading corner or cabinets (permanently, not just January to November). Currently, we actually find this surplus space very pleasant.

MachsSelbst schrieb:

Do you regularly have guests such that you cannot pull out the couch in the living room or accommodate guests in the office?

The office on the ground floor is used daily as a workspace and also as a small electronics lab. Definitely not an option for guests. Moreover, about two days a week both adults work from home simultaneously and are often in video conferences. Having only one office would be difficult long-term.

MachsSelbst schrieb:

25k, I will need that for the entire exterior landscaping including garden, hedge, tool shed, paving, etc. — materials and tools, I’ll do the work myself. Just for an attractive fence (not wire mesh or precast concrete) you could easily spend 25–30k.

No fence is planned; we are planting a hedge and seeding the lawn. The majority of the costs go towards paving work. The tool shed is already included in the carport quote. The budget should also cover the two trees required by the development plan.

MachsSelbst schrieb:

If it says something like "30cm gravel layer included, everything else extra," then you’re probably looking at tens of thousands more.

I will definitely provide more details from the quote later, but alongside 150 m³ (5,300 ft³) of construction sand for preparation, the following points are included for the foundation:

• Foundation concrete C 20/25 XC 2 including reinforcement, steel bars top and bottom with a diameter of 12 mm (0.5 inches) for exterior foundations. Dimensions: 30/65 cm (12/26 inches).
• Foundation ring earth electrode made of galvanized strip steel including connection parts.
• Base slab:
The reinforced concrete base slab is made with concrete strength class C 20/25, exposure class XC 2, finished with a rough screed and reinforced with 2 layers of Q 188. The slab is laid over a PE foil as a protective layer between the slab and perimeter insulation. Thickness: 16 cm (6 inches).
• Masonry and base waterproofing in the foundation area according to DIN 18533 T1 (07/2017 edition) extending 30 cm (12 inches) above ground level (see foundation detail) using an aluminum composite membrane or similar. Connection of the waterproof membrane to the interior masonry. On top of the horizontal concrete base that supports the facing brick, the membrane is fixed with ALUJET adhesive WAL and ALUJET connection strips SPEED, including building corner connections. Material: ALUJET Walljet aluminum.
• Sweeping and applying a waterproofing membrane made of aluminum composite material on the concrete slab. The membrane is supplied and professionally applied to the existing slab, including connection to the existing cavity wall damp-proof membrane. Material: ALUJET Floorjet SPEED.

We’re not experts, so here’s my question: Is this what you mean or are you referring to completely different services?

MachsSelbst schrieb:

Oh, and by the way, nearly 6 meters (20 feet) from the couch to the TV. Even a 70-inch screen looks tiny at that distance.

The furniture layout is the architect’s “decoration,” which we didn’t discuss. It was included in the initial draft. I have marked the living room orientation we are aiming for in the attachment.

kbt09 schrieb:

Air space ... that small one by the entrance ... what is it useful for? I would cut it immediately.

Yes, that’s correct. The air space disappeared in my new draft.

kbt09 schrieb:

Floor-to-ceiling windows throughout the upper floor ... with the planned furniture you can clearly see desks in front of the windows. Sometimes wiring will be visible, too. For me, that would be a cut point.

ypg schrieb:

Portrait windows don’t exactly provide the broad daylight that wider windows can. Floor-to-ceiling windows are not suitable for bedrooms due to privacy. Here, even a floor-to-ceiling window in the bathroom faces the street — you will definitely need blinds (do people still use pleated blinds?). Child 2 will never feel comfortable in pajamas in the room. The same applies on the west side (Child 1 and bedroom).

We’ve been considering that for some time. Fundamentally, we believe more light is almost always better, and our experience with floor-to-ceiling windows regarding light yield is more positive than ypg suggests.

We actually planned for pleated blinds that can be closed halfway if needed but still let in more light than solid walls. Is that not common anymore? I see them everywhere.

kbt09 schrieb:

The staircase is quite tight, with the upper floor overhanging the first two to three steps. Check the cross-section carefully in case tall people risk hitting their heads when going down.

Removing the air space solves the staircase problem since the access to the closet can be shifted closer to the exterior wall. Or, as suggested by ypg:

ypg schrieb:

Omit the built-in wardrobe, and put the closet entrance there. Change bedroom access, rotate the bed’s headboard to the exterior wall.

However, we prefer the direct passage through the closet so you’re not always confronted with all the storage. We also like the north window for natural light in the closet.

kbt09 schrieb:

Entrance slalom past the toilet and office. That’s also where the main coat storage is with two small kids.

I removed this maze from my new draft.

kbt09 schrieb:

Kitchen/Dining ... if planned as shown in the layout, then patio access is very inconvenient because the table is right in the way.

In my opinion, there is actually enough space around (I still need to redraw it with our real table and chairs but don’t have them at the moment). Also, the number of routes between kitchen and terrace seems overestimated in my view. But maybe that’s my allergy-prone nature; I rarely sit on the terrace from spring to autumn, let alone eat there. My wife will likely think differently. If we manage to fit a kitchen island, the walking route will also be less zigzag.

kbt09 schrieb:

Master bedroom — unfortunately no dimensions provided, but I find placing beds with the headboard directly by the entrance corridor rather critical. The walkway left of the bed also looks a bit narrow.

The bed is drawn as 2.00 m (79 inches) wide. I think we’ll upgrade soon from 1.40 m (55 inches), but not to some huge monster. So there should be enough space to walk around it. The orientation is intentionally chosen, with a direct west-facing view through the window, which we like.

kbt09 schrieb:

Bathroom and floor-to-ceiling window facing the street — it’s clear that privacy screens will be necessary. The layout feels tight — too little space between sink and bathtub. But again, dimensions are missing for more accurate assessment.

The floor-to-ceiling window is true. We’re just worried we might otherwise have too little natural light. A wider window doesn’t work aesthetically because of the street view; below is the utility room which definitely doesn’t need it. (Though I mention below that the external views are relatively unimportant to us...)

ypg schrieb:

Pantry can be done there, but...

It’s currently removed. As it was drawn, it did more harm than good. I didn’t want to drop it during the architect meeting but now there’s enough time for reflection.

ypg schrieb:

Ground floor: rotate staircase 180 degrees and reduce to a quarter turn. Then remove the wall between the stairs and coat storage. Position the office window so a cabinet could fit behind the door.

I consider any type of rotated staircase a serious tripping hazard, especially carrying a child or cumbersome items. Maybe I’m just clumsy, but a rotated staircase would be a last resort for me.

ypg schrieb:

Fixed window on the west side here feels like a style mismatch.

There’s only one neighbor watching from the west, so we don’t really care. As long as the elevations aren’t completely random, that’s fine with us, but for the west side, we’d honestly mind even less.

nordanney schrieb:

Parents want this for the kids. The kids don’t care.

That probably depends a lot on personal experience. My wife and I both had rooms larger than 20 m² (215 sq ft) and both found that very pleasant, especially during teenage years.

ypg schrieb:

But it’s true that people prefer to have the entire project in a single thread.

Thanks for the info, we’ll try to do that.

ypg schrieb:

Who’s the builder?

I’d rather not disclose that here in the thread. I can share it via private message if that’s relevant.

ypg schrieb:

On what basis would the builder lower their quoted price?

I might fundamentally misunderstand the world and capitalism, but I’ve always assumed that builders aim to make a profit. The precondition for negotiation would be that the builder would prefer a project with slightly less profit rather than none at all. There are enough builders in our region, and the number of new single-family homes is not exactly at a record high—at least not in a positive sense.

ypg schrieb:

Which district is it?

District of Harburg, more towards the western part.

The ground floor layout is an improvement, but the closet opposite the staircase is poorly placed, and the kitchen simply doesn’t work with such a tiny island.

As mentioned, unfortunately, dimensions are missing. I currently estimate the kitchen width to be around 370–390 cm (145–154 inches). The dining table appears to be about 70 cm (28 inches) wide, and the terrace doors, being French doors, obstruct access to the terrace. I assume there will also be a terrace on the left side of the plan. Children will play in the garden, and so on, but that’s a separate matter.

Main entrance: how wide is the carport supposed to be? It could become quite tight. Where will the bicycles go? In the storage area?

Regarding windows... floor-to-ceiling windows that are 100 cm (39 inches) wide only provide light over that 100 cm width, with some diffusion. If rotated 90°, they would be roughly 210 cm (83 inches) wide and usually about 120 cm (47 inches) high, offering light across the 210 cm width with some diffusion. Rooms can generally be furnished much more flexibly, and especially when facing the street, you are less exposed.

Back to the bedroom: if you use the wardrobe as a reference due to missing dimensions, the wall behind the bed’s headboard is about 270–320 cm (106–126 inches) wide. This leaves a walkway of 60–70 cm (24–28 inches) on the left side of the bed. The person sleeping on the left will always have to pass in front of their partner’s head when leaving the room (for example, at night for the bathroom or if they get up earlier), which is often a disturbance.

The bed is better rotated about 90° with its head against the left side of the plan. Unfortunately, the walkway next to the bed becomes tight on both sides if the bed is up to 2 m (79 inches) long. As mentioned, the lack of exact measurements makes it difficult to mentally rearrange the room’s layout.