Hello,
a quick question for the collective knowledge, with the most important details and information briefly summarized:
- New construction planned, building permit / planning permission application to be submitted next week
- Street: fully serviced (water, sewage, electricity, gas, etc.), road was resurfaced sometime between 1990 and 2000
- Neighbors all properly connected, but mostly older houses
- Water valve (VA) sign is located on the right side of the fence next to our driveway
I requested a pipeline map from the water utility, but they could not provide one, apparently because there are no suitable documents or maps available. The blue water valve (VA) sign indicates that a water shut-off valve is located on the main line beneath the street. The valve was found exactly where the sign indicates at the roadside (on the opposite side of the street).
During an on-site visit, the water utility representative said there should be a pipe there, but they didn’t know exactly where since it’s not marked on their maps. I was advised to carry out exploratory excavations at my property boundary, where the pipe should be located at about 1.50 meters (5 feet) depth.
The first exploratory excavation at the spot suggested by the employee (slightly to the left of the water valve sign) was unfortunately unsuccessful. I dug a hole approximately 80 cm (31 inches) wide and about 180-190 cm (71-75 inches) deep, also extending somewhat underground towards the sidewalk. I refilled the hole afterward because sand and soil were already crumbling at the edges. I plan to dig a trench to the right of this spot when time permits to continue searching for the pipe.
A detail at the boundary: The sewage maps were also somewhat inaccurate, but I did find the sewer pipe at approximately 1.20 meters (4 feet) depth, extending about 80-100 cm (31-39 inches) onto my property.
Question: What rights or options do I have if I don’t find anything with further exploratory digging? Is there any chance I can require the local water utility to perform its own search for me, ideally at no cost? I got the impression the employee was reluctant to take any initiative here. I’m happy to continue with further excavations, but each time it requires a lot of time, effort, and sweat, especially since we don’t live on-site.
a quick question for the collective knowledge, with the most important details and information briefly summarized:
- New construction planned, building permit / planning permission application to be submitted next week
- Street: fully serviced (water, sewage, electricity, gas, etc.), road was resurfaced sometime between 1990 and 2000
- Neighbors all properly connected, but mostly older houses
- Water valve (VA) sign is located on the right side of the fence next to our driveway
I requested a pipeline map from the water utility, but they could not provide one, apparently because there are no suitable documents or maps available. The blue water valve (VA) sign indicates that a water shut-off valve is located on the main line beneath the street. The valve was found exactly where the sign indicates at the roadside (on the opposite side of the street).
During an on-site visit, the water utility representative said there should be a pipe there, but they didn’t know exactly where since it’s not marked on their maps. I was advised to carry out exploratory excavations at my property boundary, where the pipe should be located at about 1.50 meters (5 feet) depth.
The first exploratory excavation at the spot suggested by the employee (slightly to the left of the water valve sign) was unfortunately unsuccessful. I dug a hole approximately 80 cm (31 inches) wide and about 180-190 cm (71-75 inches) deep, also extending somewhat underground towards the sidewalk. I refilled the hole afterward because sand and soil were already crumbling at the edges. I plan to dig a trench to the right of this spot when time permits to continue searching for the pipe.
A detail at the boundary: The sewage maps were also somewhat inaccurate, but I did find the sewer pipe at approximately 1.20 meters (4 feet) depth, extending about 80-100 cm (31-39 inches) onto my property.
Question: What rights or options do I have if I don’t find anything with further exploratory digging? Is there any chance I can require the local water utility to perform its own search for me, ideally at no cost? I got the impression the employee was reluctant to take any initiative here. I’m happy to continue with further excavations, but each time it requires a lot of time, effort, and sweat, especially since we don’t live on-site.
No, the building application is complete and will be submitted soon – the water pipe is located on the street and at least according to the signage and information from the local authorities at the property.
@11ant Who knows, maybe the technical staff at the relevant offices / authorities are all just "temporary holiday replacements," but maybe not. You are actually the first to strongly doubt the existence of a pipe. What is actually correct will probably become clear later on.
@ypg Yes, that is exactly the reasoning why I asked here – because I also see the responsibility with the water association. I am happy to carry out one or two exploratory excavations, but I am only somewhat willing to conduct repeated excavations over 20 m (65 feet) wide along the fence (on my side of the property!). Because each excavation day is quite a task and not exactly a walk in the park. I will probably do a few more excavations when the weather improves. Otherwise, I’ll submit the application later and we’ll see how things proceed.
@11ant Who knows, maybe the technical staff at the relevant offices / authorities are all just "temporary holiday replacements," but maybe not. You are actually the first to strongly doubt the existence of a pipe. What is actually correct will probably become clear later on.
@ypg Yes, that is exactly the reasoning why I asked here – because I also see the responsibility with the water association. I am happy to carry out one or two exploratory excavations, but I am only somewhat willing to conduct repeated excavations over 20 m (65 feet) wide along the fence (on my side of the property!). Because each excavation day is quite a task and not exactly a walk in the park. I will probably do a few more excavations when the weather improves. Otherwise, I’ll submit the application later and we’ll see how things proceed.
AlexAmy schrieb:
Who knows, maybe the specialists at the relevant offices / authorities are all just "temporary interns covering vacation," but maybe not. You are actually the first to strongly claim that an existing pipeline is unlikely. Perhaps "using common sense" and "remembering your education" are not explicitly stated in their job descriptions, and they therefore feel entitled to refuse these responsibilities. As water professionals, one should know that you don’t build dead-end pipes, poorly flushed areas become breeding grounds, and so on. More than the position of the valve, the sign can hardly indicate anything else on a pristine, undeveloped plot.
AlexAmy schrieb:
What will turn out to be true in the end will probably become clear later. In any case, the attempt to shift the burden of investigation onto you is presumptuous (and to put it mildly, outrageous).
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Once again: You apply for the connection and include a site plan showing where the connection should enter the house. They will carry out the work accordingly. It should not be your concern where they run the branch line from the main line or whether anyone decides to look for a dead-end line to connect to.
On the contrary: if you start excavating the public ground in several places up to 150 cm (5 feet) deep, you could potentially be accused of property damage if something shifts and the road surface becomes unstable. I wouldn’t recommend doing that.
On the contrary: if you start excavating the public ground in several places up to 150 cm (5 feet) deep, you could potentially be accused of property damage if something shifts and the road surface becomes unstable. I wouldn’t recommend doing that.
Just to briefly avoid any misunderstandings, especially since I didn’t even write this: I have conducted and will only conduct exploratory excavations at the property boundary on my own land. Of course, I do not perform any work on public property. Furthermore, there should be no water or anything similar in the pipe, as it is sealed at both ends—that is, at the valve (which should generally remain closed since installation) and at the end cap. We are therefore most likely talking about an empty plastic pipe, which makes non-invasive detection using appropriate methods on public land very difficult.
Anyway—as I just mentioned, I will still do 1 or 2 more exploratory excavations, and if necessary, this will have to be clarified later as part of the official application process.
My actual question to the community was not whether a pipe is located there or anything similar, but whether a water association can evade responsibility here due to obviously missing or incomplete pipeline maps. I also believe that this behavior is shameless, but nowadays, unfortunately, you often only get results with authorities and public offices by relying on facts and legal grounds.
Anyway—as I just mentioned, I will still do 1 or 2 more exploratory excavations, and if necessary, this will have to be clarified later as part of the official application process.
My actual question to the community was not whether a pipe is located there or anything similar, but whether a water association can evade responsibility here due to obviously missing or incomplete pipeline maps. I also believe that this behavior is shameless, but nowadays, unfortunately, you often only get results with authorities and public offices by relying on facts and legal grounds.
AlexAmy schrieb:
My actual question to the community was not whether there is a pipeline or anything else there, but whether a water utility can avoid responsibility by pointing to obviously missing or incomplete pipeline maps. I also think this behavior is brazenly irresponsible, but nowadays you often can only get results with authorities/offices by presenting facts and legal grounds. You submit an application. They do nothing? > file a complaint about official misconduct, take legal action for failure to act. They say "You must" > request a legally binding decision, file an objection. Often, just a call from a lawyer is enough. You can put an end to bureaucratic foot-dragging.
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