ᐅ Danwood Complete Package vs. Separate Hire of an Architect

Why can you already have a quote for the house when the architect still needs to be commissioned for the planning?

That’s how it usually works in most cases, isn’t it? You receive a preliminary design from the sales team (adjusted floor plan, building specifications, possibly upgrades with estimated price) along with a price. A proper architect—whether hired separately or not—usually comes into play for more detailed planning after the contract is signed, as far as I understand. Whether a window is installed on the left or right doesn’t (significantly) affect the price. However, if it later turns out during planning with the architect that a waterproof concrete shell (“white tank”) is required, this will lead to additional costs. It is primarily the responsibility of the homeowner (and ideally the sales team) to clarify as many of these points as possible in advance or to budget a contingency.

I am also often surprised that this regularly causes confusion.
When we provide an offer, we do not include detailed planning in the proposal. Since the offer is free of charge and non-binding, we only put in the effort necessary to provide a price and check the feasibility of what we are offering. But we do not take any further steps than needed.

In general, it is always better to have a single contact person or contractor rather than three or four, who might blame each other if something goes wrong, miss deadlines, and so on.
It is also a matter of responsibility. If your basement builder fails to deliver, for whatever reason, then that becomes your problem and your main contractor can hold you accountable if the installation schedule is missed.
If everything comes from one source, it is the responsibility of the main contractor, and the construction time guarantee applies.
However, since the single contact person takes on this coordination and risk, it is naturally more expensive than if the homeowner manages these issues themselves.

And in house construction, there is usually already more than enough to sort out even with just one contractor.

mh93333 schrieb:

The basement is planned to be partially used as living space, meaning the main entrance area and the home office will be located in the basement.

Can you list a few points here? My understanding is that the basement contractor will build the basement based on plans from Danwood or the architect. These specifications should then be part of the contract. My idea is, once the planning is finalized, to put the basement and earthworks out to tender and award the contract to the best offer. Ideally, that would be Glatthaar, due to the coordination you mentioned between Glatthaar and Danwood.

You really need to check what Danwood is willing, able, and actually offered to handle regarding the basement finishing, as they usually expect a typical utility basement.

For example, even if they were subcontracting Glatthaar, they would not have taken on insulation or plastering of the non-earth-contact walls and ceilings on the exterior in our basement, no installation of standard windows (meaning only windows that can be pre-installed at the concrete plant—Aco products—and without shutters or other shading), no drywall for additional interior walls, no bathrooms or toilets, no sanding, wallpapering, or other wall finishes, no floor coverings, etc. — all these are services that would likely have to be contracted out separately for a basement intended as living area.

Perhaps the rules have changed since then, but you definitely need to ensure that Danwood (and of course Fingerhaus as well) have explicitly offered all these services. Keep pressing sales to confirm this very explicitly in writing to avoid unpleasant surprises later. Anything not explicitly included in the offer from Danwood (and Glatthaar) will not be done.

In our case—because we did not build with Glatthaar—items like floor insulation, underfloor heating, screed, all electrical installations, wastewater pipes between the ceiling slab and the main sewer line were our responsibility. Danwood only took on the ventilation installation. That’s quite a lot of trades that will need to be added if you don’t build with Danwood + Glatthaar together.

mh93333 schrieb:

If you mean things like site setup, electrical meter cabinet, soil report, etc., I have those on my radar 🙂

Exactly, that’s what I meant. Also think about site management: if you are in a region/state (or country) where a general construction manager is required, note that Glatthaar & Danwood site managers are usually not authorized for this role, and not every Danwood or sales architect will act as construction manager. This can lead to substantial additional costs.

mh93333 schrieb:

Thanks for the tip about hiring an independent architect. It is indeed my plan to have the planning reviewed by an architect or building surveyor before signing the contract to avoid planning errors.

As I said, I would approach it differently and have the floor plan initially developed in draft form by an independent architect. Ideally, this could be based on standard example floor plans from your preferred homebuilder but always unbiased, to make the most of the slope, plot, sightlines, and your needs — this is really valuable.

However, if you are 100% sure that the standard or adjusted floor plans of the prefab home company suit your needs, then you can do it the other way around. In my opinion, you could then save yourself the expense of the independent architect or building surveyor. You can post the floor plans here in the forum; you will get plenty of suggestions and critiques — be prepared for some tough feedback.

You really need to check what Danwood intends, can, and even offers to include in the finishing, as they usually assume a traditional utility basement for cellars.

It seems we are lucky with our Danwood sales representative. We have the following items included in the offer:

• Screed on the basement floor including underfloor heating
• Roller shutters
• Ventilation system
• Electrical installation
• Same stair arrangement in the basement as on the ground and top floors
• Vertical wastewater pipe in the basement connecting the basement floor slab to the basement ceiling, 5 times

The offer from Glatthaar also includes:

• Perimeter insulation on the exterior wall with a thickness of 140 mm (5.5 inches)
• Load-bearing perimeter insulation under the basement floor slab with a thickness of 100 mm (4 inches)

Further interior finishing, such as plastering, wall and floor coverings, will be offered optionally in the next version of the quote.

if you are in a federal state where a general construction supervisor is required

I am located in Baden-Württemberg. We found the following thread here in the forum. It is often strongly recommended there not to contract the house and the basement separately...

mh93333 schrieb:

We seem to be lucky with our Danwood sales representative. We have the following items included in the offer:

• Screed in the basement including underfloor heating
• Roller shutters
• Ventilation system
• Same staircase layout in the basement as on the ground and upper floors
• Wastewater pipe in the basement vertical / connection between basement floor slab and basement ceiling 5x

Regarding the offer from Glatthaar, also the following:

• Perimeter insulation on the external wall, thickness = 140 mm (5.5 inches)
• Load-bearing perimeter insulation under the basement floor slab, thickness = 100 mm (4 inches)

They want to optionally offer further interior finishes in the next version of the offer, such as filler work, wall and floor coverings.

Well, it doesn’t seem all that different to me – for example, perimeter insulation means insulation in contact with the ground, i.e., everything that is buried in the soil. You should ask specifically: what about the exposed areas (e.g., around the main entrance) – who is responsible for insulating and plastering them?

Oh, and regarding roller shutters – are they surface-mounted roller shutters? If yes, is that how you want them? If not defined or if they are built-in, it’s important to clarify this – I can’t guarantee this, but I vaguely recall that surface-mounted roller shutters were possible. However, that’s not necessarily the standard expectation for a new build...

About the site manager: it’s best to confront the sales team and ask if the architect they assigned will take over this role and whether this service is included in the price.

mh93333 schrieb:

Since the plot has a moderate slope, we plan to build with a basement. After extensive research and comparison, two offers emerged as follows:

• Customized catalog prefabricated house from Danwood
• Exterior dimensions 10.57 x 8.92 = 94.3
• Architectural services (fixed price, approx. 8,000€) and basement construction to be contracted separately (i.e. at least three contracts)
• Danwood recommends partner basement builder Glatthaar and an architect known to them
• Customized catalog prefabricated house from Fingerhaus
• Exterior dimensions 9.75 x 8.35 = 81.4
• Architectural services and basement included in the offer, i.e. only one contract

What exactly does "moderate slope" mean here: is the basement living area on the valley side at normal window sill height without light wells above ground, or even fully above ground with floor-to-ceiling windows?
Also, 75 or 65 sqm (approx. 800 or 700 sq ft) of living space in the footprint means the houses are not equally sized, so the comparison is misleading.

mh93333 schrieb:

Now, the first offer is about €25,000 cheaper despite the larger house size. Since Danwood manufactures in Poland and Fingerhaus in Germany, this might explain the price difference.

That’s nonsense. If the smaller house meets your needs, there is no reason to choose a larger one. The myth "Poland = discount" is not a valid explanation.

mh93333 schrieb:

The basement is planned to be partially used for living purposes, meaning the entrance area and the home office will be located in the basement.

Ah, so we are talking about a basement with valley-side access. Will you still enjoy a valley view from the main floor living room in the catalog layout, or will it open into a sloped garden?

mh93333 schrieb:

Our concern is that in this setup, as clients, we might get overwhelmed or have to temporarily act as site managers without professional expertise.

Since this is one of the most legitimate concerns imaginable, the idea

mh93333 schrieb:

to put the basement and excavation work out to tender as soon as the planning is advanced and award the contract to the best bidder—ideally Glatthaar—

sounds to me like an absolute recipe for disaster, because

mh93333 schrieb:

my understanding is that the basement builder constructs the basement based on plans from Danwood or the architect. These specifications should be part of the contract.

To make these part of the contract, the "basement" must be included in the scope of the main contract. There is nothing to tender here, since awarding the job to the house manufacturer's basement builder is effectively non-negotiable, as the late chancellor might have said "without alternative."

MachsSelbst schrieb:

It’s also a question of responsibility. If your basement builder fails to deliver, for whatever reason, that becomes your problem, and your house builder can hold you accountable if the completion date slips.
If everything comes from one source, then it’s the house builder’s problem, and the construction time guarantee applies.
But because one contact takes care of these clarifications and the risks, this is naturally more expensive than the client taking all that on.

I omitted a crucial small word in the quote. Whenever contracts are split, a devil’s triangle to the detriment of the client arises:

11ant schrieb:

The interface between slab and basement is a tolerance-critical junction that should ideally be kept "under one roof," at least regarding overall responsibility [...]. By splitting the house construction contract into two independent parts, you open the door for both parties to evade responsibility and blame the other if problems occur.

The basement/footing manufacturer measures height referencing the left manhole cover (unfortunately on "the other left"), or the basement ceiling has openings planned with x/y coordinates in "meters after Christ" but executed in "meters plus VAT," and so on. Therefore, an overlapping responsibility of potential fault and accountability is absolutely essential here.

Thus, the provider without basement integration in the contract scope would already be categorically excluded.

I fully support the further suggestion

Harakiri schrieb:

I would approach it differently and have the floor plan developed as a design draft by an independent architect. Preferably based on example standard floor plans from the preferred house manufacturers, but always unbiased, to make the best use of the slope, plot, views, and your needs—that’s really invaluable.

—not only theoretically but also practically (see external "Turning Point: Steering Toward Implementation"). A catalog house can only be used very limitedly here. Choosing a standard catalog design can cost a lot if the slope is not adequately taken into account. The base model should be selected "too small" so that, including the additional basement required by the site, it doesn't turn into excess living space. The original poster should show the plot (don’t forget to fill out Yvonne’s famous #Questionnaire!), then substantial advice can be given here. Next, a freelance architect should complete "Module A" (see "A House-Building Roadmap, also for you: the HOAI Phase Model!"), whose results allow proceeding during the "resting period" to the turning point. Depending on that, you then engage for either only Phase 3 or the full "Module B" with the architect, and later possibly with a provider found during the turning point.

That the original poster may end up happy with Danwood is not excluded, but for a sloped site, it is unlikely since (except for the shrub carpenter) almost no timber builders build earth-contact basements. A hybrid construction is therefore probable.

For readers following along, I’ll briefly address the question in the title:
Second, it is not the architect contract here that makes the offer "complete," but the basement.
And first, the inclusive architect of a general contractor/house manufacturer only takes on the "necessary" architectural services in this contract form—meaning solely those related to building permit/planning permission submissions (which is a totally different matter from fulfilling the client’s wishes, in fact almost from a different perspective).

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