ᐅ Architect commissions a surveyor without the homeowner’s consent.
Created on: 25 Sep 2024 16:23
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Silvia T.
Hello, can someone tell me if a surveyor is supposed to notify me regarding a planned survey of my house for a proposed extension?
Background:
I wanted to build a larger extension onto my existing house to increase its size. The plans were created by my cousin, who is an architect. However, he was based in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, and I live in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW). Both the financing and the planning were still uncertain when the bank informed me that I would need a local architect to carry out the construction project.
At the end of 2021, I contacted a local architect to ask if he would be willing to take over my cousin’s plans and, if the bank approved the financing, to submit the building permit / planning permission application and manage the construction under those conditions.
Between October 2021 and February 2022, I visited his office about three times, each meeting lasting around 30 minutes. He was not opposed to the idea but said he needed to review my cousin’s plans to see if he could adopt them. During the second meeting, he mentioned he still had the original plans of the existing house since his father had designed it and that he could simply retrieve them from his archives for reference.
The topic of the third meeting was the architectural contract, including which trades would be involved, etc. My clear request was that if financing was approved, no contracts should be awarded without my consent, and that I wanted my legal protection insurance to review the architect’s contract first.
At the same time, I received an offer from a local surveying company that the architect collaborates with, regarding a survey of the house. I ignored this as it was just an offer and I assumed it was non-binding.
About two weeks after this meeting, the bank declined to finance the project, which I immediately informed the architect about by phone, stating that under these circumstances I would have to forego his services and that the construction project was therefore cancelled.
Shortly thereafter, I received an invoice from the architect for €18,000 (around 20,000 USD)! I thought this must be a misunderstanding and did not respond.
Soon after, I also received an invoice from the surveying company for a supposed survey that was allegedly conducted on February 11, 2022. I live in the house and my windows face the area where the survey should have taken place, but nobody showed up.
Summary:
An architect, with whom I only had preliminary discussions (no contract in place) about a planned extension (without bank approval and based on another architect’s plans), commissioned a surveying company without my consent (order and offer dates: February 9/10, 2022; execution date: February 11, 2022).
My question is:
How can I prove that the surveyor was not there and that the surveyor and architect are trying to scam me out of a lot of money? Both invoices are in court, and I need to find a way to show that I had no knowledge the surveyor had been hired. In my opinion, the surveying company should have notified me before carrying out the survey, which did not happen.
Is there any other way to expose their attempted fraud?
I would be very grateful for any suggestions!
P.S. The most frustrating part is that local building regulations wouldn’t have allowed the planned extension anyway. A special application would have been required, and there was no guarantee it would have been approved. Unfortunately, I only found this out later.
Background:
I wanted to build a larger extension onto my existing house to increase its size. The plans were created by my cousin, who is an architect. However, he was based in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, and I live in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW). Both the financing and the planning were still uncertain when the bank informed me that I would need a local architect to carry out the construction project.
At the end of 2021, I contacted a local architect to ask if he would be willing to take over my cousin’s plans and, if the bank approved the financing, to submit the building permit / planning permission application and manage the construction under those conditions.
Between October 2021 and February 2022, I visited his office about three times, each meeting lasting around 30 minutes. He was not opposed to the idea but said he needed to review my cousin’s plans to see if he could adopt them. During the second meeting, he mentioned he still had the original plans of the existing house since his father had designed it and that he could simply retrieve them from his archives for reference.
The topic of the third meeting was the architectural contract, including which trades would be involved, etc. My clear request was that if financing was approved, no contracts should be awarded without my consent, and that I wanted my legal protection insurance to review the architect’s contract first.
At the same time, I received an offer from a local surveying company that the architect collaborates with, regarding a survey of the house. I ignored this as it was just an offer and I assumed it was non-binding.
About two weeks after this meeting, the bank declined to finance the project, which I immediately informed the architect about by phone, stating that under these circumstances I would have to forego his services and that the construction project was therefore cancelled.
Shortly thereafter, I received an invoice from the architect for €18,000 (around 20,000 USD)! I thought this must be a misunderstanding and did not respond.
Soon after, I also received an invoice from the surveying company for a supposed survey that was allegedly conducted on February 11, 2022. I live in the house and my windows face the area where the survey should have taken place, but nobody showed up.
Summary:
An architect, with whom I only had preliminary discussions (no contract in place) about a planned extension (without bank approval and based on another architect’s plans), commissioned a surveying company without my consent (order and offer dates: February 9/10, 2022; execution date: February 11, 2022).
My question is:
How can I prove that the surveyor was not there and that the surveyor and architect are trying to scam me out of a lot of money? Both invoices are in court, and I need to find a way to show that I had no knowledge the surveyor had been hired. In my opinion, the surveying company should have notified me before carrying out the survey, which did not happen.
Is there any other way to expose their attempted fraud?
I would be very grateful for any suggestions!
P.S. The most frustrating part is that local building regulations wouldn’t have allowed the planned extension anyway. A special application would have been required, and there was no guarantee it would have been approved. Unfortunately, I only found this out later.
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Gerddieter27 Sep 2024 09:28YES!!! @Silvia T.
You have the fighting spirit and won’t let yourself be fooled. Go for it—but just be aware that it can also backfire... in the end, it will only hurt financially if it goes wrong, so you need to know what you can afford.
You’ve written a lot recently, and regarding one thing, I had a similar feeling as you: if the surveyor “fails,” the architect might be “easier” to deal with... but if not, then not.
Fingers crossed!
GD
You have the fighting spirit and won’t let yourself be fooled. Go for it—but just be aware that it can also backfire... in the end, it will only hurt financially if it goes wrong, so you need to know what you can afford.
You’ve written a lot recently, and regarding one thing, I had a similar feeling as you: if the surveyor “fails,” the architect might be “easier” to deal with... but if not, then not.
Fingers crossed!
GD
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Schorsch_baut27 Sep 2024 11:173 hours on site for the survey or 3 hours of total work? Are there existing survey points, or did they have to be located or determined first? For us, the process was quick because two of the four points were found on site, and the other two could be calculated based on those. Creating the mapping and entering it into the land registry maps then incurred additional costs.
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hanghaus202327 Sep 2024 13:07The architect hired the surveyor on February 9, 2022, received the quote the next day on February 10, 2022, and the survey was carried out immediately on February 11, 2022. Honestly, I have a trusted contractor for whom I am a VIP client, and I have to wait at least 3-4 months before they start work, while the surveyor was able to get it done right away?
If the two work well together, this is exactly how it should be.
What surprises me more is that the surveyor was hired before you had even received the draft contract.
I also wonder why a surveyor is needed at all.
To check the legal situation, plans alone should be sufficient.
You should follow my advice from #8 regarding the protocols.
Also consider the advice from @mayglow in #36.
The response from #24 is still pending.
I wish you good luck. Please keep us updated.
If the two work well together, this is exactly how it should be.
What surprises me more is that the surveyor was hired before you had even received the draft contract.
I also wonder why a surveyor is needed at all.
To check the legal situation, plans alone should be sufficient.
You should follow my advice from #8 regarding the protocols.
Also consider the advice from @mayglow in #36.
The response from #24 is still pending.
I wish you good luck. Please keep us updated.
S
Schorsch_baut27 Sep 2024 13:26hanghaus2023 schrieb:
I also wonder why a surveyor is needed at all.
To check the legal situation, plans should be enough.
We don't know anything about the planned extension or the main house. But €750,000 is already a substantial amount, which doesn’t suggest just a 20 sqm (215 sqft) conservatory attached to a new build.We had to have our house surveyed so the extension could be planned precisely. Especially if the architect is only supposed to "sign off" on the cousin’s plan, it is wise to verify the dimensions and planning data for the construction project. In our case – in an old village center without a development plan – there were no exact cadastral maps, no floor plans, nothing. If necessary, the boundaries need to be resurveyed. When it comes to boundary setbacks, every centimeter counts. And old parcels are often not perfectly rectangular. Ours is, due to inheritance, right-of-ways, and land swaps, a complicated polygon.
And the original poster’s statement, "The real issue here is that the local zoning laws would not have permitted the planned extension. A special application would have to be submitted, and there was no guarantee it would be approved. Unfortunately, I only learned this later,"
can mean a lot of things. For example, the question of the floor area ratio. To assess this as well, a survey is needed. We also don’t know whether the original poster communicated to the architect that everything was urgent – the issue with the bank suggests this – so maybe the architect was trying to handle things like surveying quickly. We only know one side of the story.
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nordanney27 Sep 2024 13:30I don’t really understand what the disagreement is about. Apart from the preliminary analysis (plus surveyor), nothing more has been done.
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hanghaus202327 Sep 2024 14:00@Schorsch_baut If the architect says he already has the house plans, I even assume that he had the measurements taken back then.
I still don’t understand why you would meet with the architect four times if you didn’t intend to hire him.
@nordanney I seriously doubt that a HOAI contract was concluded here until I see the invoice.
I still don’t understand why you would meet with the architect four times if you didn’t intend to hire him.
@nordanney I seriously doubt that a HOAI contract was concluded here until I see the invoice.
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