ᐅ Renovation or Demolition and New Construction – Guidance from an Architect?
Created on: 28 Aug 2024 18:57
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Frechdachs
Good evening, dear community,
We recently purchased a single-family house from the late 1950s: a charming 125m² (1,345 sq ft), partially basemented property located in an area regulated under § 34 of the German Building Code. It also comes with a large garden and is close to our previous rental apartment. In short: location, property, and “value for money” all fit.
The second viewing was with an architect, whom we quickly found in the neighboring village. His conclusion: good structure, but in need of renovation. We have a list of recommended renovation measures aiming to raise the house financially sensibly to the best possible energy efficiency class, including rough cost estimates.
In addition, demolition and new construction (140m² (1,507 sq ft) without basement) were calculated using the commonly cited rule of thumb here of 3,500 euros per m².
We had not yet made up our minds: both estimates plus a buffer were within our self-imposed budget, so we bought the house.
Now we have reached the point where we need to choose between renovation or demolition and new construction, primarily focusing on concrete costs and feasibility (§ 34).
What would you advise? How would you proceed most sensibly?
For example, I was thinking of having the architect now plan both renovation and new construction in more detail—meaning developing floor plans, submitting a preliminary building inquiry (building permit / planning permission), and obtaining quotes.
However, I am unsure whether this would be “wasted money,” and whether it might be more advisable to simply decide on one path.
I look forward to your opinions, thoughts, and experiences, and thank you in advance.
We recently purchased a single-family house from the late 1950s: a charming 125m² (1,345 sq ft), partially basemented property located in an area regulated under § 34 of the German Building Code. It also comes with a large garden and is close to our previous rental apartment. In short: location, property, and “value for money” all fit.
The second viewing was with an architect, whom we quickly found in the neighboring village. His conclusion: good structure, but in need of renovation. We have a list of recommended renovation measures aiming to raise the house financially sensibly to the best possible energy efficiency class, including rough cost estimates.
In addition, demolition and new construction (140m² (1,507 sq ft) without basement) were calculated using the commonly cited rule of thumb here of 3,500 euros per m².
We had not yet made up our minds: both estimates plus a buffer were within our self-imposed budget, so we bought the house.
Now we have reached the point where we need to choose between renovation or demolition and new construction, primarily focusing on concrete costs and feasibility (§ 34).
What would you advise? How would you proceed most sensibly?
For example, I was thinking of having the architect now plan both renovation and new construction in more detail—meaning developing floor plans, submitting a preliminary building inquiry (building permit / planning permission), and obtaining quotes.
However, I am unsure whether this would be “wasted money,” and whether it might be more advisable to simply decide on one path.
I look forward to your opinions, thoughts, and experiences, and thank you in advance.
Frechdachs schrieb:
In addition, demolition and rebuild (140m² (1507 sq ft) without basement) So the old basement is supposed to remain and the new house built on top?
Grundaus schrieb:
So the old basement is supposed to remain, and the new house built on top of it?This is often a practical and economical solution, but unfortunately, the facts are missing here from all perspectives.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
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S
Siedler3429 Aug 2024 16:31We completely renovated and extended a settlement house from the 1930s, and it turned out really beautiful.
When renovating an old house, you almost inevitably come up with creative solutions that often have much more character than a new build.
However, the effort involved can be disproportionately high, both in terms of time and cost. We spent 2 years on the project and had construction costs of 3000€/m² (300 €/ft²) – and that was in 2019, when a new build was still calculated at 2500€/m² (230 €/ft²).
When renovating an old house, you almost inevitably come up with creative solutions that often have much more character than a new build.
However, the effort involved can be disproportionately high, both in terms of time and cost. We spent 2 years on the project and had construction costs of 3000€/m² (300 €/ft²) – and that was in 2019, when a new build was still calculated at 2500€/m² (230 €/ft²).
We also renovated a somewhat larger suburban house and stayed below €2000 per sqm (about $215 per sqft) in 2023/24. We did not address two things: the exterior facade was only repainted, not insulated (it already had 8 cm (3 inches) of insulation), and the basement was not excavated, only the basement ceiling was insulated. Everything else was completely new (electrical system, plumbing, roof—though the roof structure was still fine—windows, floors, etc.), with many changes to the floor plan and windows. The finishes were also fairly high-end (large-format tiles, etc.).
A renovation costing €3500 per sqm (about $375 per sqft) must include some special features, right?
Yes, a renovated house has disadvantages because in many aspects it remains an old house. But as others have mentioned, I also think it has a lot more character.
A renovation costing €3500 per sqm (about $375 per sqft) must include some special features, right?
Yes, a renovated house has disadvantages because in many aspects it remains an old house. But as others have mentioned, I also think it has a lot more character.
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Frechdachs29 Aug 2024 18:21Wow, thank you all very much.
I’m overwhelmed by the number of responses.
Sorry that I didn’t start by sharing photos and the floor plan right away.
I promise to improve and will make sure to provide them as soon as possible.
Here is already one photo from the outside:
Thanks for sharing your experience. The seller told us their oil heating uses about 3,000 liters for a winter.
We are already noticing the positive cooling effect: Whenever we go to ventilate, we leave summer temperatures outside and enter a comfortably cool interior.
Good to know, thanks. The basement will stay a basement, and your comment about the living room without a basement definitely makes things easier for us.
If that’s possible, yes — so far I had naïvely assumed this is unusual and generally not advisable.
Interesting, did you know from the start that you wanted to do a renovation?
I’m overwhelmed by the number of responses.
Sorry that I didn’t start by sharing photos and the floor plan right away.
I promise to improve and will make sure to provide them as soon as possible.
Here is already one photo from the outside:
HausKaufBayern schrieb:
Since you are concerned about heating costs, that is definitely an issue. For example, our house was built in 1950, with two units housing four people total over about 200 m2 (2,150 sq ft) permanently, plus another 250 m2 (2,690 sq ft) partly unoccupied. Last year, heating costs were 3,000 euros. It could be higher in a colder winter. We are now planning to get a wood stove. From a purely financial standpoint, I don’t think insulation really pays off for our large house. When the roof needs renovating, we’ll insulate it, but we will only renovate the facade if we are required to.
I actually find the indoor climate better, as another poster mentioned, compared to some new builds. In summer, it’s noticeably cooler because of the thick walls and the nightly ventilation.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The seller told us their oil heating uses about 3,000 liters for a winter.
We are already noticing the positive cooling effect: Whenever we go to ventilate, we leave summer temperatures outside and enter a comfortably cool interior.
Grundaus schrieb:
This kind of work is common for damp basements and doesn’t cost too much. You can’t get underneath the basement floor, of course, but if you don’t plan to use it as an office or similar, that’s fine. You can also insulate the basement ceiling if there’s enough headroom.
In the living room without a basement, simply install underfloor heating so your feet won’t get cold.
Good to know, thanks. The basement will stay a basement, and your comment about the living room without a basement definitely makes things easier for us.
Grundaus schrieb:
So the old basement would remain and the new house built on top of it?
11ant schrieb:
That’s often a practical and economical solution, but unfortunately the facts are missing here from all perspectives.
If that’s possible, yes — so far I had naïvely assumed this is unusual and generally not advisable.
Siedler34 schrieb:
We completely renovated and extended a terraced house from the 1930s, and it turned out really lovely.
When you renovate an old house, you almost inevitably come up with creative solutions, which often have much more character than a new build.
However, the effort can be disproportionally high in terms of both time and cost. We took two years and had construction costs of 3,000 euros per m2 (280 sq ft) in 2019, while a new build was still estimated at around 2,500 euros per m2 (230 sq ft) then.
leschaf schrieb:
We also renovated a somewhat larger terraced house and spent under 2,000 euros per m2 (185 sq ft) in 2023/24. We left two things untouched: the exterior facade was only painted, not insulated (it already had 8 cm (3 inches) of insulation), and the basement wasn’t excavated but only the basement ceiling insulated. Everything else was completely new (electrical, plumbing, roof (roof structure was still okay), windows, floors, etc.), with many changes to the floor plan and windows. Also included some high-end finishes (large-format tiles, etc.).
Renovation costing 3,500 euros per m2 (325 sq ft) must include some particular features?
Yes, a renovated house has disadvantages, as it still has some elements of an old house. But as others have noted, I also find it has much more charm.
Interesting, did you know from the start that you wanted to do a renovation?
Frechdachs schrieb:
If that’s possible, yes – until now, I had naively assumed this was uncommon and generally not advisable. Adding questions with only minimal facts is generally not advisable.
Using an existing basement is often a good idea, but it is not automatically a big selling point because many buyers of developed plots tend to clear them indiscriminately. Building is still not expensive enough for some people. This is related to a generation of spoiled individuals now reaching the homebuilding age. They are used to highly customized wish lists.
And again: gather the basics first, then you can get advice – privately or publicly.
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