Hello everyone,
We have a few questions regarding our architect, their cost estimate, and their overall approach. We are currently in phase 2; planning the major renovation and a 40% increase in living space for our 1960s house. We have attached the cost calculation we received after 4 weeks of processing, as there are several points we find unclear. We have already discussed this with the architect, who also cannot explain the high costs. The costs seem disproportionately high to us. At the start of the planning, we had budgeted €500,000. How should we approach this? Is it realistic to expect the total to get close to €600,000? In that case, we would have to cut many things that we actually want to keep. Our original goal was to expand the living space and not to completely abandon the extensions and only carry out a major renovation. Does this cost estimate make sense to you? We look forward to your comments.
We have a few questions regarding our architect, their cost estimate, and their overall approach. We are currently in phase 2; planning the major renovation and a 40% increase in living space for our 1960s house. We have attached the cost calculation we received after 4 weeks of processing, as there are several points we find unclear. We have already discussed this with the architect, who also cannot explain the high costs. The costs seem disproportionately high to us. At the start of the planning, we had budgeted €500,000. How should we approach this? Is it realistic to expect the total to get close to €600,000? In that case, we would have to cut many things that we actually want to keep. Our original goal was to expand the living space and not to completely abandon the extensions and only carry out a major renovation. Does this cost estimate make sense to you? We look forward to your comments.
G
Gerddieter4 May 2024 22:20Gerddieter schrieb:
I just reviewed the points I assigned myself and have to say—without knowing your property—your estimates for flooring and painting seem rather low to me. Here, flooring installation was all-inclusive with quality parquet at 100/m² (9.3 sq ft), and painting work, including filling, plaster fleece, and silicate paint, was around 35/m² (3.3 sq ft) for walls and ceilings.
GD Ah, now I’m also reading the notes—everything is textured wallpaper with paint... no, come on. Overall, it looks like a lower-end finish was calculated (plastic door, etc.)...
B
Benutzer2254 May 2024 23:08Thank you very much for all the feedback so far.
Regarding the questions asked so far:
The architect will be able to explain in detail on request how he arrived at the individual trade costs.
--> He actually cannot explain this in detail. He calculated the costs using a program (a tool recommended by the Chamber of Architects) and came up with over 900,000€ (approx. $980,000). He then manually recalculated and arrived at a figure of over 800,000€ (approx. $870,000). He himself is surprised that the total costs are so high and cannot explain them.
A corresponding, detailed preliminary design (design phase 2) – including quantity surveying (partial service design phase 6) – assumed.
--> Since quantity surveying is only provided in service phase 6, we do not have it yet.
How many m² of heated net usable floor area/living area are to be remodeled in your existing building?
--> The area is being increased from 116m² (1,248 sq ft) to approximately 170m² (1,830 sq ft).
Will the floor plans be significantly changed / will there be structural modifications?
--> Yes, we are planning, among other things, two extensions where load-bearing walls need to be relocated. Additionally, the old load-bearing walls will need to be supported by steel beams and columns.
Is the roof structure going to be completely renewed / will the attic be converted?
--> Yes, the roof will be extended by two dormers. However, the architect has not planned to renew the roof structure because he believes the roof can be preserved. We do know from an identical building that the entire roof had to be renewed there, as the rafters were too thin and would not support the dormers. So it is quite certain that the costs for a new roof will be added. This fact is causing us additional concern.
What is the size of the planned new construction (net floor area / living area)?
--> The living area after the renovation would be about 170m² (1,830 sq ft).
New construction / building in existing structures has become significantly more expensive over the past three years. It is not without reason that your architect correctly added the note "excluding inflation surcharge during planning and construction period" at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs depend on the size and condition of the property, the client’s requirements, and the labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.
--> That is certainly all correct. However, in our opinion, costs exceeding 800,000€ (approx. $870,000) are still clearly too high for this renovation work. You could get a complete new build elsewhere for that. Especially since we had indicated a budget of 500,000€ (approx. $540,000) and were not warned at any point that costs were significantly exceeding this target. Furthermore, we have been in planning since February already.
Regarding the questions asked so far:
The architect will be able to explain in detail on request how he arrived at the individual trade costs.
--> He actually cannot explain this in detail. He calculated the costs using a program (a tool recommended by the Chamber of Architects) and came up with over 900,000€ (approx. $980,000). He then manually recalculated and arrived at a figure of over 800,000€ (approx. $870,000). He himself is surprised that the total costs are so high and cannot explain them.
A corresponding, detailed preliminary design (design phase 2) – including quantity surveying (partial service design phase 6) – assumed.
--> Since quantity surveying is only provided in service phase 6, we do not have it yet.
How many m² of heated net usable floor area/living area are to be remodeled in your existing building?
--> The area is being increased from 116m² (1,248 sq ft) to approximately 170m² (1,830 sq ft).
Will the floor plans be significantly changed / will there be structural modifications?
--> Yes, we are planning, among other things, two extensions where load-bearing walls need to be relocated. Additionally, the old load-bearing walls will need to be supported by steel beams and columns.
Is the roof structure going to be completely renewed / will the attic be converted?
--> Yes, the roof will be extended by two dormers. However, the architect has not planned to renew the roof structure because he believes the roof can be preserved. We do know from an identical building that the entire roof had to be renewed there, as the rafters were too thin and would not support the dormers. So it is quite certain that the costs for a new roof will be added. This fact is causing us additional concern.
What is the size of the planned new construction (net floor area / living area)?
--> The living area after the renovation would be about 170m² (1,830 sq ft).
New construction / building in existing structures has become significantly more expensive over the past three years. It is not without reason that your architect correctly added the note "excluding inflation surcharge during planning and construction period" at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs depend on the size and condition of the property, the client’s requirements, and the labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.
--> That is certainly all correct. However, in our opinion, costs exceeding 800,000€ (approx. $870,000) are still clearly too high for this renovation work. You could get a complete new build elsewhere for that. Especially since we had indicated a budget of 500,000€ (approx. $540,000) and were not warned at any point that costs were significantly exceeding this target. Furthermore, we have been in planning since February already.
B
Benutzer2254 May 2024 23:12ypg schrieb:
How many square meters are we talking about in total?These are renovation works expanding from 116m² (1,248 sq ft) to 170m² (1,830 sq ft).B
Benutzer2254 May 2024 23:14Gerddieter schrieb:
Ah, now I’m reading the comments – all woodchip wallpaper with paint…. no way. Otherwise, he has calculated a rather basic level of finishes (plastic door, etc.).. According to the architect, he calculated with a mid-range level of finishes.
B
Benutzer2254 May 2024 23:19Zaba123 schrieb:
What kind of nutcase is that? €93,000 net for the architect. Is this a joke?wpic schrieb:
The architect will be able to explain to you in detail how he arrived at the individual trade prices upon your request – assuming a corresponding, detailed preliminary design (service phase 2) – already with quantity surveying (partial service phase 6).
- How many square meters of heated net floor area/living space in your existing property will be remodeled?
- Will the floor plans be significantly changed/structural changes made?
- Will the roof structure be completely renewed/converted?
- What is the size of the planned new build (net floor area/living space)?
New construction/building on existing property has become considerably more expensive over the last three years. It is not without reason that your architect quite correctly added the note “without inflation adjustment during the planning and construction period” at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs depend on the size and condition of the property, the wishes of the client, and labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.The architect cannot explain in detail how he arrived at the individual trade prices. He used a software tool (recommended by the architects’ association) to calculate and came up with more than €900,000. He then manually recalculated and arrived at a figure over €800,000. He himself is surprised by how high the total costs are and cannot explain them.
If quantity surveying is only provided in service phase 6, then we do not have that information yet.
How many square meters of heated net floor area/living space in your existing property will be remodeled?
This is an expansion from 116m² (1250 sq ft) to about 170m² (1830 sq ft).
Will the floor plans be significantly changed/structural changes made?
Yes, we are planning two extensions, where load-bearing walls need to be moved. Additionally, the old load-bearing walls must be supported by steel beams and columns.
Will the roof structure be completely renewed/converted?
The roof will be extended with two dormers. However, the architect did not plan to renew the roof structure because he believes it can be preserved. We know from an identical building that the entire roof had to be replaced because the rafters were too thin and couldn’t support the dormers. It is therefore quite certain that the cost of a new roof will be added. This fact unsettles us.
What is the size of the planned new build (net floor area/living space)?
The living area after the renovation would be about 170m² (1830 sq ft).
New construction/building on existing property has become considerably more expensive over the last three years. It is not without reason that your architect quite correctly added the note “without inflation adjustment during the planning and construction period” at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs depend on the size and condition of the property, the wishes of the client, and labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.
That is certainly all true. However, in our opinion, costs of over €800,000 are still clearly too high for this renovation work. You can get a complete new build elsewhere for that. Especially since we had indicated a budget of €500,000 and were never informed at any point that the costs were significantly exceeding that target. Also, we have been in planning since February already.
B
Benutzer2254 May 2024 23:22wpic schrieb:
The architect will be able to explain to you in detail how he arrived at the individual trade prices – assuming a corresponding, detailed preliminary design (phase 2) – already including quantity surveying (partial service phase 6).
- How many m² of heated net floor area/living space are to be renovated in your existing building?
- Will the floor plans be significantly changed/will the structural framework be altered?
- Will the roof structure be completely renewed/will the attic be converted?
- What is the size of the planned new building (net floor area/living space)?
New construction/renovation of existing buildings has become significantly more expensive over the last three years. It is no coincidence that your architect correctly added the note "without inflation surcharge during the planning and construction period" at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs are determined by the size/condition of the property, the wishes of the client, and the labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.The architect will not actually be able to explain in detail how he arrived at those individual trade costs. He used software (a tool recommended by the architectural association) to calculate the costs and came up with over €900,000. He then recalculated manually and arrived at a figure of over €800,000. He himself is surprised by how high the total costs are and cannot explain them.
If quantity surveying is only provided in service phase 6, we do not have those figures yet.
How many m² of heated net floor area/living space are to be renovated in your existing building?
It involves an increase in area from 116m² to approximately 170m² (1249 sq ft to approximately 1830 sq ft).
Will the floor plans be significantly changed/will the structural framework be altered?
Yes, among other things, we plan two extensions where load-bearing walls need to be relocated. Additionally, the old load-bearing walls must be supported with steel beams and columns.
Will the roof structure be completely renewed/will the attic be converted?
Yes, the roof will be supplemented by two dormers. However, the architect has not planned to renew the roof structure, as he believes the roof can be preserved. We know from an identical house that there the entire roof had to be renewed because the rafters were too thin and would not support the dormers. So it is quite certain that the costs for a new roof will be added. This fact makes us even more uncertain.
What is the size of the planned new building (net floor area/living space)?
The living area after renovation would be about 170m² (1830 sq ft).
New construction/renovation of existing buildings has become significantly more expensive over the last three years. It is no coincidence that your architect correctly added the note "without inflation surcharge during the planning and construction period" at the end of his cost estimate. Construction costs arise from the size/condition of the property, the client’s requirements, and labor and material prices, which the architect cannot influence.
That is certainly true. However, we feel that costs of over €800,000 are still clearly too high for this renovation. You could get a complete new build elsewhere for that price. Moreover, we had indicated a target budget of €500,000 and were not informed at any point that costs were significantly exceeding this target. Also, we have already been working on the planning since February.
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