ᐅ Floor Plan Ideas and Cost Estimate for Renovating a Semi-Detached House from 1939
Created on: 25 Mar 2024 20:40
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Ben_desHello everyone,
now that it has become clear to us (and was made clear) that a renovation is better than an extension in the garden, I would like to ask for advice again from the collective intelligence here.
The facts:
- An architect has been hired and is already working. So far, we like the plan.
- The semi-detached house mainly dates from 1939. The living room on all levels is an extension from 1981, as are the balcony and the double garage.
- The ground floor is occupied by my mother. We live on the first floor. The attic floor is still rented out. The tenant knows he has to leave. The attic space has already been partially converted. It was insulated with glass wool about 10 years ago. Only the painting is missing. It is intended to become my office.
That means we want to combine the first floor, attic floor, and attic space into one unit.
Current ideas:
First floor:
- The existing staircase will be closed off downwards to the ground floor. For “family reasons,” we want a separate entrance. The staircase upwards will remain, or a new one will be installed (or restored?). It is still the original staircase from 1939.
- The entrance stairs will run along the previous balcony. The stairs will go up from north to south.
- Since we have hardly used the balcony due to its dimensions (7 x 2m (23 x 6.5 feet)), it will be used to enlarge the old children’s room and future dining room with kitchen.
- The kitchen will become a vestibule/coatroom and entrance area.
- The bathroom will remain, as it was completely renovated just 3 years ago and will serve as a guest WC/bathroom.
- The bedroom stays.
- The living room stays but should be brighter. That means even larger windows need to be installed.
Attic floor:
- The kitchen will become a utility room with washing machine and dryer. There will also be a staircase to the attic space/office.
- Since the tenant here smokes and the children’s rooms need to be placed here, we will probably have to renovate the entire core (or?)
- The remaining space will become 3 children’s bedrooms plus a bathroom.
Attic space:
- Will be an office. I would like it to be brighter and have more glass. If financially possible, I would like to have a large window with a nice view towards the city center.
Costs:
- An energy consultant recommended by the architect has already been on site. He estimates the renovation costs at approximately €370,000–400,000 (around $400,000–430,000). That leaves me somewhat speechless. I expected half that. Is it really that expensive?
He says that for subsidies, we would have to renovate the roof completely. Roof estimate: €100,000 (about $108,000). Technical systems: €100,000 (about $108,000). Interior finishing accounts for the rest. With €370,000 (about $400,000), more than 5 hours of personal labor per day is expected (!!). Otherwise, it would be closer to €400,000.
Google never shows me costs this high. Of course, costs are difficult to estimate, but this seems quite a large difference.
I would only have the roof redone if it’s really necessary or beneficial. Our focus is on the interior finishing. The subsidies are currently not high enough to make it really worthwhile to invest so much just for that, right?
We want underfloor heating and a ventilation system installed. But does the technical equipment have to be that expensive? The gas heating installed 16 years ago is still working…
Questions:
- What do you think about the floor plans?
- What do you think about the costs?
- What would you have done and what would you leave out?
Our focus is on a contemporary look (bright) and technology (underfloor heating and ventilation system).
now that it has become clear to us (and was made clear) that a renovation is better than an extension in the garden, I would like to ask for advice again from the collective intelligence here.
The facts:
- An architect has been hired and is already working. So far, we like the plan.
- The semi-detached house mainly dates from 1939. The living room on all levels is an extension from 1981, as are the balcony and the double garage.
- The ground floor is occupied by my mother. We live on the first floor. The attic floor is still rented out. The tenant knows he has to leave. The attic space has already been partially converted. It was insulated with glass wool about 10 years ago. Only the painting is missing. It is intended to become my office.
That means we want to combine the first floor, attic floor, and attic space into one unit.
Current ideas:
First floor:
- The existing staircase will be closed off downwards to the ground floor. For “family reasons,” we want a separate entrance. The staircase upwards will remain, or a new one will be installed (or restored?). It is still the original staircase from 1939.
- The entrance stairs will run along the previous balcony. The stairs will go up from north to south.
- Since we have hardly used the balcony due to its dimensions (7 x 2m (23 x 6.5 feet)), it will be used to enlarge the old children’s room and future dining room with kitchen.
- The kitchen will become a vestibule/coatroom and entrance area.
- The bathroom will remain, as it was completely renovated just 3 years ago and will serve as a guest WC/bathroom.
- The bedroom stays.
- The living room stays but should be brighter. That means even larger windows need to be installed.
Attic floor:
- The kitchen will become a utility room with washing machine and dryer. There will also be a staircase to the attic space/office.
- Since the tenant here smokes and the children’s rooms need to be placed here, we will probably have to renovate the entire core (or?)
- The remaining space will become 3 children’s bedrooms plus a bathroom.
Attic space:
- Will be an office. I would like it to be brighter and have more glass. If financially possible, I would like to have a large window with a nice view towards the city center.
Costs:
- An energy consultant recommended by the architect has already been on site. He estimates the renovation costs at approximately €370,000–400,000 (around $400,000–430,000). That leaves me somewhat speechless. I expected half that. Is it really that expensive?
He says that for subsidies, we would have to renovate the roof completely. Roof estimate: €100,000 (about $108,000). Technical systems: €100,000 (about $108,000). Interior finishing accounts for the rest. With €370,000 (about $400,000), more than 5 hours of personal labor per day is expected (!!). Otherwise, it would be closer to €400,000.
Google never shows me costs this high. Of course, costs are difficult to estimate, but this seems quite a large difference.
I would only have the roof redone if it’s really necessary or beneficial. Our focus is on the interior finishing. The subsidies are currently not high enough to make it really worthwhile to invest so much just for that, right?
We want underfloor heating and a ventilation system installed. But does the technical equipment have to be that expensive? The gas heating installed 16 years ago is still working…
Questions:
- What do you think about the floor plans?
- What do you think about the costs?
- What would you have done and what would you leave out?
Our focus is on a contemporary look (bright) and technology (underfloor heating and ventilation system).
Ben_des schrieb:
How do you find the floor plans? By posting them here along with the link to your previous discussion. I still have the house ahead of me, but that doesn’t mean much.ypg schrieb:
By posting it here along with the link to your previous discussion. I still have the house ahead of me, but that means nothing.You were just too quick. But somehow the image upload isn’t working for me.
Here is the link to the old thread
Ben_des schrieb:
Red shows the old layout. Green is the new one. [...] The white walls are existing. The gray ones represent the new plan. This is too complicated. Overview diagrams are helpful, but not in this format.
As you have probably seen by now, it’s most practical to follow the usual “color coding”: existing structure in gray or black, new construction in red, demolition in yellow.
Ben_des schrieb:
The existing stairwell is to be closed off downstairs at the ground floor. For “family reasons,” we want a separate entrance. You should also show this, as the ground floor is missing here and causes confusion.
Ben_des schrieb:
The semi-detached house basically dates from 1939. The living room on all levels is an extension from 1981. I probably already said in the previous thread that I don’t trust the measurements and would recommend clarifying how the house was actually built.
Ben_des schrieb:
An energy consultant recommended by the architect has already visited. He estimates renovation costs at around €370,000–400,000 (about $405,000–440,000). That leaves me speechless. I was expecting about half of that. Is it really that expensive?
He says that for funding, the roof needs to be fully redone. Estimated cost for the roof: €100,000 (about $110,000). Technical systems: €100,000 (about $110,000). Interior finishing makes up the rest. And for €370,000 (about $405,000), they expect more than 5 hours of your own work per day!! Otherwise, it’s closer to €400,000 (about $440,000)…
Google never shows me costs that high. Of course, the costs are hard to estimate, but I still find this a huge difference. More than 5 hours per day… sorry, but I have to quote the saying: “No way, little Peter!” Does that energy consultant know anything about structural engineering?
The overwhelmingly (dangerously!) oversized item here is the uncertainty in the estimate. That is in the six-figure range!
Therefore, I strongly advise you to have a very detailed plan. Many renovation clients (and their inexperienced architects in older buildings) operate under the basic misunderstanding that phase 1 design work in renovations can be done half-heartedly. The opposite is true: the effort is often multiple times greater compared to new builds. Otherwise, you have to put “maybe” in front of every cost item and “or double” behind it. That is not yet the worst case, but in this range it usually balances out.
Capture and describe the condition and proposed measures very precisely!
Have the energy consultant clearly state which funding conditions apply to each measure.
I currently lack time for a full review, but most of what I said in your previous thread still applies to the updated project. At least I don’t feel the need to write more today.
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I would probably access the ground floor apartment from the "balcony" side, meaning the front door would be there, and you keep the staircase.
1. It’s more cost-effective, and 2. I don’t think the straight outdoor stairway is practical for everyday use with three children.
Energy-efficient renovations can be doubly subsidized through the separate apartment on the ground floor. You should take advantage of that. Yes, building has become expensive, and so has renovation.
Where was north again?
I think it can work without complicated floor plan changes like here.
And where is the item for facade insulation?
1. It’s more cost-effective, and 2. I don’t think the straight outdoor stairway is practical for everyday use with three children.
Energy-efficient renovations can be doubly subsidized through the separate apartment on the ground floor. You should take advantage of that. Yes, building has become expensive, and so has renovation.
Where was north again?
I think it can work without complicated floor plan changes like here.
Ben_des schrieb:
He says that for subsidies we need to redo the entire roof. Estimate for the roof: 100,000 €. Technical systems 100,000 €. The rest for interior finishing.
And where is the item for facade insulation?
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