Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
There are definitely features that increase comfort. However, in most cases, this does not justify an additional investment of 30,000 (currency not specified), but of course, everyone has to decide that for themselves.
With smart home technology, use cases are often designed that only make sense if nothing changes (e.g., no pets, no small children). To me, that doesn’t feel “smart” at all. A good example is a robot vacuum cleaner that is supposed to start automatically when someone leaves the house. As soon as children leave their shoes in the hallway or pets leave something behind, it no longer works.
Constantly making adjustments also means there will be problems from time to time that wouldn’t occur otherwise. I imagine that can be quite annoying.
To continue the car comparison: A high beam assistant that doesn’t work 100% reliably will be turned off and no longer used after a short time.
With smart home technology, use cases are often designed that only make sense if nothing changes (e.g., no pets, no small children). To me, that doesn’t feel “smart” at all. A good example is a robot vacuum cleaner that is supposed to start automatically when someone leaves the house. As soon as children leave their shoes in the hallway or pets leave something behind, it no longer works.
Constantly making adjustments also means there will be problems from time to time that wouldn’t occur otherwise. I imagine that can be quite annoying.
To continue the car comparison: A high beam assistant that doesn’t work 100% reliably will be turned off and no longer used after a short time.
S
Schnubbihh5 Jan 2024 19:25FloHB123 schrieb:
When it comes to smart homes, use cases are often designed that only make sense if nothing changes (e.g., no pets, no small children). To me, that doesn’t feel very "smart" at all. A good example is the robotic vacuum that’s supposed to start automatically when someone leaves the house. As soon as children leave shoes in the hallway or pets leave something there, it no longer works.
Constantly making adjustments also means that problems appear from time to time that wouldn’t exist otherwise. I imagine that to be quite frustrating.
To stick with the car comparison: a high beam assistant that doesn’t work 100% is switched off after a short time and no longer used. I think this is exactly where the difference becomes clear. Some give up after the first deviation or error. Others try to find solutions and get creative. Even for exceptions and variations, clever alternatives can be found in smart homes. Forgotten shoes in the hallway have long ceased to be an obstacle for my robotic vacuum. It reliably recognizes them and drives around. The missed spots are simply cleaned the next time...
H
hausbau_phobos5 Jan 2024 19:30For everything else, you go with the latest standards, but when it comes to the electrical system, you plan according to the 1950s? To me, that’s like controlled residential ventilation – sure, I could ventilate myself. But I don’t have to anymore.
Oh dear.
To keep with the comparison: Then I simply wouldn’t buy a car from a company that can’t even get a high beam assistant right. And if the car has rust everywhere because the buyer didn’t pay attention, it’s certainly not the high beam assistant’s fault.
In general, you should have an interest and enthusiasm for the topic. If you don’t, every little issue will make you think the “whole system is worthless.” I once had a KNX project in a very expensive residential complex with 18 units where KNX and related systems were included “as standard” at the time of purchase, without an option to choose. “Defects” and “problems” only appeared with buyers who weren’t interested in smart home technology. That’s always the case.
FloHB123 schrieb:
To continue the car comparison: A high beam assistant that doesn’t work 100% will be turned off and no longer used after a short time.
To keep with the comparison: Then I simply wouldn’t buy a car from a company that can’t even get a high beam assistant right. And if the car has rust everywhere because the buyer didn’t pay attention, it’s certainly not the high beam assistant’s fault.
In general, you should have an interest and enthusiasm for the topic. If you don’t, every little issue will make you think the “whole system is worthless.” I once had a KNX project in a very expensive residential complex with 18 units where KNX and related systems were included “as standard” at the time of purchase, without an option to choose. “Defects” and “problems” only appeared with buyers who weren’t interested in smart home technology. That’s always the case.
Here are my use cases for switchable/measurable sockets:
- Aquarium heater (only heats during the day – photovoltaic)
- Cabinet lighting in the wardrobe and wall unit, and under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen
- Turning on the TV lowers the blinds on windows that would cause glare
- Towel warmer in the bathroom (preheating based on time, presence, etc.)
- Infrared ceiling panel in the guest bathroom, switchable via wall switch (with proper planning, this could also be controlled via a lighting outlet)
- All chargers in the workshop are connected to a switchable outlet. It is turned on by a switch and automatically turns off once charging is complete.
- Outdoor sockets can be switched off at night and during extended absences; timers are used for outdoor Christmas lighting
- Turning on the PC powers the monitor, speakers, etc.
Regarding ventilation heat recovery (VHR) and cooling, I can only agree with the reasoning. Setting the bathroom to 25°C (77°F) and the bedroom to 18°C (64°F) works well year-round. I also like to lower the underfloor heating in the living room in advance when using the wood stove. It’s probably not wrong to say that the benefit is somewhat “limited” in a new build. But simply because I don’t want to have a discussion with a potential buyer—who shouldn’t be reading here in the forum—that would affect the purchase price.
- Aquarium heater (only heats during the day – photovoltaic)
- Cabinet lighting in the wardrobe and wall unit, and under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen
- Turning on the TV lowers the blinds on windows that would cause glare
- Towel warmer in the bathroom (preheating based on time, presence, etc.)
- Infrared ceiling panel in the guest bathroom, switchable via wall switch (with proper planning, this could also be controlled via a lighting outlet)
- All chargers in the workshop are connected to a switchable outlet. It is turned on by a switch and automatically turns off once charging is complete.
- Outdoor sockets can be switched off at night and during extended absences; timers are used for outdoor Christmas lighting
- Turning on the PC powers the monitor, speakers, etc.
Regarding ventilation heat recovery (VHR) and cooling, I can only agree with the reasoning. Setting the bathroom to 25°C (77°F) and the bedroom to 18°C (64°F) works well year-round. I also like to lower the underfloor heating in the living room in advance when using the wood stove. It’s probably not wrong to say that the benefit is somewhat “limited” in a new build. But simply because I don’t want to have a discussion with a potential buyer—who shouldn’t be reading here in the forum—that would affect the purchase price.
S
Schnubbihh5 Jan 2024 21:16Fuchur schrieb:
- Turning on the TV lowers the external blinds on windows that would cause glareCool idea, I'll add that to my list.