Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
jens.knoedel schrieb:
Cool feature. I agree. Cool, but not really necessary. I would make sockets for large appliances like white goods, oven, stove, espresso machine, fridge/freezer, or similar switchable. However, these should include power measurement to enable control or monitoring functions. Additionally, I would only put sockets in window reveals for Christmas lights, as some people do, on actuators. If I want to switch something somewhere, I simply use a switchable Wi-Fi socket for around 10 euros that I control via the visualization system, or I install a Wi-Fi bulb directly in the respective lamp.
S
Schnubbihh5 Jan 2024 07:46Araknis schrieb:
I would make power outlets for large appliances like white goods, ovens, cooktops, espresso machines, refrigerators/freezers, or similar devices switchable. However, I would include power consumption measurement to enable switching or monitoring functions based on that data. Additionally, I would only put outlets in window recesses for Christmas lights, as some people have, on actuators. If I want to make something switchable somewhere, I use a switchable Wi-Fi outlet for about 10 euros that I control via the visualization system, or I install a Wi-Fi bulb directly into the respective lamp. What about all the indirect lighting in the living room, hallway, bedside tables, etc.? Wouldn’t Wi-Fi outlets contradict the KNX principle of fully wired connections and reliability?
I think you first need to consider a lighting concept – do you want everything with DALI, KNX (do you need RGB, LED strips, etc.), or a mixed solution? What should be dimmable, what should be switchable, and so on?
I decided to go with Hue and implement everything consistently using only Hue – mixed solutions somehow seem impractical to me. That way, you don’t necessarily need to make as many things switchable. However, you are somewhat limited in lamp selection, and controlling Hue through third-party systems (e.g., dimming via KNX dimmer switches) isn’t really smooth (due to request limits enforced by the bridge) – but if you want to work mostly via touch controls, it feels almost native.
I decided to go with Hue and implement everything consistently using only Hue – mixed solutions somehow seem impractical to me. That way, you don’t necessarily need to make as many things switchable. However, you are somewhat limited in lamp selection, and controlling Hue through third-party systems (e.g., dimming via KNX dimmer switches) isn’t really smooth (due to request limits enforced by the bridge) – but if you want to work mostly via touch controls, it feels almost native.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
What about all the indirect lighting in the living room, hallway, bedside table, etc.?I’m only referring to more mobile items like floor lamps or similar—basically things you plug into sockets. Whether a clip-on lamp at the bed with a Hue or some other bulb compromises the KNX setup, I doubt it. Permanently installed lights, of course, are connected to actuators. Whether DALI or KNX is just a simple calculation. Beyond a certain number of dimmable or tunable white lights, DALI becomes cost-effective; before that, not so much (apart from the wiring effort if you want to do DALI properly).As my predecessor already said, a lighting plan should be developed first.
J
jens.knoedel5 Jan 2024 08:21Araknis schrieb:
If I want to make something switchable somewhere, I use an affordable Wi-Fi smart plug for about 10 euros (around $11) that I control via the visualization system, or I install a Wi-Fi bulb directly into the respective lamp. Then you can also work with Shelly devices. They are switchable and simultaneously measure power consumption.
Araknis schrieb:
I would make outlets for major appliances like white goods, ovens, stoves, espresso machines, refrigerators/freezers, or similar switchable. But then with power measurement to build any switching or monitoring functions on top of that. Honestly – and not just speaking to you – why would I need to make an oven switchable? And what is the point of power measurement? While I can see the consumption, in my opinion, switching and monitoring is totally pointless (also for the refrigerator). However, since I like to learn, I am open to hearing about any real practical use cases.
S
Schnubbihh5 Jan 2024 08:24jens.knoedel schrieb:
To be honest – not just addressing you – why would I need to have the oven, etc., controllable remotely? And what’s the point of measuring power consumption? I can see the usage, but controlling and monitoring it, in my opinion (also for the refrigerator), is totally pointless.
However, since I like to learn, I’m happy to hear about real practical use cases. I find the monitoring quite interesting.
For example: I leave the house and realize I left the stove or oven on, and I get an alert or can check remotely whether I forgot something.
Regarding the refrigerator: it once broke down without me noticing, and I had to throw away all the food in the freezer. A warning (possibly) would help in situations like that.