ᐅ Experiences with Converting a Farmhouse?

Hello everyone,

I admit that I am a complete beginner when it comes to (re)building planning and would appreciate any constructive advice. Here is the situation:

My parents own a former farmstead. Farming has not been carried out for at least two generations.
The building consists of a main house measuring about 10 x 15 meters (33 x 49 feet) from the 19th century and an attached barn of roughly the same size built in 1928. There are no immediate neighbors on the 25,000 sqm (6.2 acres) property, most of which is designated as green space.

Currently, the building contains 3 apartments:
Parents’ apartment in the main house upper floor.
Vacant apartment in the main house basement.
Small apartment of my brother in the barn’s attic.
The entire upper floor was basically converted into living space by my grandfather/father on their own and used to be a hayloft.

A new build in the rural/outside development zone is almost impossible (not designated as building land but “outside development area”).

Some considerations:
There should be a permanent arrangement for 3 households on the site. The layout would largely remain the same.
Before we even think about whether to renovate or demolish the main house, we would like to understand how to start a project like this at all.

We have no contact with our rather strict building authority. There are almost no documents about the house in the city’s building archive. However, the property is shown on the city’s development plan (outside development area).

- Are there legal restrictions for three households permanently living on one property where previously only my parents lived?
- Could there still be penalties or similar for the self-built apartments (we don’t want to stir up any “sleeping dogs”)?
- Would it be best to hire an architect right away and clarify everything through them (including legal matters), or can some things be prepared or handled independently?

At this point, it’s not so much about details like insulation of the old building but more about how and with what to actually begin?
As I said, I would be very grateful for any constructive thoughts!

Best regards,
Matze

Desmo.950 schrieb:

- Are there legal restrictions on three parties living permanently on one property where previously only my parents lived?

That sounds exactly like the farmstead we bought earlier this year, except that everything is in one housing unit.
First of all, if you don’t remove load-bearing walls or extend the building structure and there is no heritage protection, you can usually renovate or refurbish without a building permit, so you don’t need to ask anyone for approval there.

If there is no official record of three separate housing units or of living space converted in the barn, and if this change happened sometime in the past decades, the authorities might initially raise issues if you inquire. What does the building insurance say? How many housing units and what area are insured, and since when? These documents are usually available.

Additionally, you can convert previously unheated, non-residential space in the outbuildings into living space. For this, you must apply for a change of use, which is similar to a building permit application. Whether this is allowed depends on the regional building regulations of your federal state. For example, in Schleswig-Holstein, up to five housing units can be approved. Approval can be granted, but the local authority may object, for example if supply and disposal systems are not secured, or if nature, landscape, or water protection laws stand in the way. An exception applies to cultural monuments, for which there must be a strong justification.
In short: depending on the regional building code, up to five housing units may be permitted, even in rural zones.
Demolition and rebuilding or changes/extensions to the building structure are a different matter and usually not permitted in rural areas (except for ancillary buildings).

Desmo.950 schrieb:

- Could there still be penalties or similar for the self-built apartments (we don’t want to wake any sleeping dogs)

As mentioned, it depends on the year. At the end of the 19th century, especially in rural areas, construction often took place without permits. The apartment in the barn is critical. The building authority can theoretically require its removal or demand retrospective approval.

Desmo.950 schrieb:

- Would you go directly to an architect to clarify everything (including legal matters) or can some things be prepared/done on your own?

If you have no experience with the necessary work, I would recommend consulting an architect experienced in renovating old buildings, who can act as a planner and neutral coordinator for the trades. If you want to apply for funding for the renovation (KfW, BEG), they should ideally also be a certified energy consultant, and for heritage buildings, possess the appropriate additional qualification. Such an architect can usually also advise you directly about what permissions are required by your local building authority.

Do you have to be granted special status for building in the open countryside, meaning you need a valid reason such as forestry or agriculture? I’m not sure if I have that right, but I think you actually have to provide proof (forestry, animal husbandry, or similar). There could be issues if this has not been practiced for two generations...

These are just my thoughts, as @dertill mentioned.
I would first clarify the financial situation and what is possible, etc.
Also, it seems that you are not the owner, but your father is. Ah, that’s stated there as well. So, who wants to build? Who wants to invest? A tax advisor should be consulted in this case (inheritance, transfers, and so on).

Oberhäslich schrieb:

Don’t you have to have a special status to build in a rural area, meaning you need a valid reason like forestry or agriculture? I’m not sure if I’m remembering correctly, but I think you generally have to prove that (forestry, livestock farming, or similar). There could be problems if this hasn’t been done for two generations....

Yes, I think so too. At least when buying. There would need to be some kind of business that can’t be operated in an urban area.

My opinion on this? Just keep quiet for now.

I’m seeing an outdoor area, illegally created living space, no reason for any special treatment. If you try to push anything through without proper approval, you risk having to dismantle it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Therefore: Get out of the forum and consult a professional (architect, specialist construction lawyer). Especially if your building authority is strict.

Oberhäslich schrieb:

Isn’t it necessary to have privileged status in rural areas, meaning a valid reason such as forestry or agriculture?

Oberhäslich schrieb:

There could be issues if this hasn’t been practiced for two generations…

With privileged use in rural areas, it is possible to build new dwellings on designated residential and agricultural land if there is a justified need. Otherwise, the above-mentioned regulations apply, which can vary depending on the regional building code and the number of housing units involved.
If the apartment in the barn and the apartment on the upper floor were developed during the period of privileged use, that is already beneficial for you. However, I would avoid causing the dogs to become skittish unless it is absolutely necessary.