ᐅ Heat pump is not compatible with a hydronic (water-heated) fireplace.
Created on: 20 Oct 2023 18:54
J
Jessica388
Hello everyone,
I hope someone here can help us because our heating engineer doesn’t seem to be able to…
Key data
New build 2022 with 250 m² (2,691 ft²)
Heat pump Viessmann Vitocal 200-A
Multifunction storage tank MFS1000S
Water-heated stove with heating capacity on the water side of 8 kW
Photovoltaic system
Electric heating element
I am attaching the schematic of the storage tank layout.
The stove was initially connected under “old” and now it has been modified.
Everything works fine as long as the underfloor heating is off.
When the underfloor heating is on, our hot water temperature doesn’t exceed about 55°C (131°F).
When the underfloor heating is off, the temperature ranges between 65–75°C (149–167°F), either via the electric heating element during sunshine or by stoking the stove.
Now, however, this energy seems to be wasted. It can’t be that the underfloor heating requires 70°C (158°F) supply temperature to achieve a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F), right? The return water is only slightly cooler. So the water should only need to be heated by a maximum of 5°C (9°F).
We assume either a) something is still connected incorrectly, or b) the cold water from the underfloor heating causes such circulation that the hot water cools down within minutes.
What can be done about this?
Has anyone experienced similar problems?
Normally, we should almost run without electric power, but currently the heat pump switches on almost every hour to heat hot water…
I hope someone here can help us because our heating engineer doesn’t seem to be able to…
Key data
New build 2022 with 250 m² (2,691 ft²)
Heat pump Viessmann Vitocal 200-A
Multifunction storage tank MFS1000S
Water-heated stove with heating capacity on the water side of 8 kW
Photovoltaic system
Electric heating element
I am attaching the schematic of the storage tank layout.
The stove was initially connected under “old” and now it has been modified.
Everything works fine as long as the underfloor heating is off.
When the underfloor heating is on, our hot water temperature doesn’t exceed about 55°C (131°F).
When the underfloor heating is off, the temperature ranges between 65–75°C (149–167°F), either via the electric heating element during sunshine or by stoking the stove.
Now, however, this energy seems to be wasted. It can’t be that the underfloor heating requires 70°C (158°F) supply temperature to achieve a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F), right? The return water is only slightly cooler. So the water should only need to be heated by a maximum of 5°C (9°F).
We assume either a) something is still connected incorrectly, or b) the cold water from the underfloor heating causes such circulation that the hot water cools down within minutes.
What can be done about this?
Has anyone experienced similar problems?
Normally, we should almost run without electric power, but currently the heat pump switches on almost every hour to heat hot water…
J
Jessica38825 Oct 2023 11:01Fuchsbau35 schrieb:
Don’t you have an additional radiator in the bathroom? We were specifically advised to install electric towel warmers because of the floor heating (thermal inertia, etc.), as they can heat up quickly when needed. Even if the heating loops are placed closer together in the bathroom, that often isn’t enough. We do have one, but it is also connected to the floor heating system because, according to the architect, we don’t need anything else… don’t ask. A lot went wrong here thanks to our “great” architect…
B
Buchsbaum25 Oct 2023 11:14sergutsh schrieb:
By now, it’s really no secret that low supply temperature alone isn’t enough to properly heat a bathroom. Logically, how should a supply temperature of 30°C (86°F) result in 24°C (75°F) in the bathroom? Many people probably face this issue not only in the bathroom but throughout the entire house.
For health reasons, I don’t want underfloor heating throughout the whole house. I don’t like the living climate it creates. Nothing beats a cozy, warm radiator where you can even sit down when you’re feeling chilly. But which owner of a new single-family home with a heat pump and underfloor heating actually feels cold? That’s just not possible.
And the owners of wood stoves are considered polluters. Sure!
I have a kitchen wood stove in my kitchen. In winter, it often reaches around 26–27°C (79–81°F) in there. It’s nice to come in frozen after skiing or shoveling snow. The food stays warm on the stove, and it’s very cozy.
As I’ve mentioned here before, I still own an oil heating system from 1992. Don’t worry, it was only installed in 2012 and has run smoothly ever since. It’s a solid cast iron boiler. I bought it used back then for 14 euros! With everything included. The previous owner installed a heat pump. Whatever.
Since Habeck’s heating mania, I’ve been looking for an identical heating system. I finally found one the day before yesterday—exactly the same heater, same model, same year. It should cost 200 euros. I’ll set it up so when my old one eventually breaks down, I can install the replacement. Overall, I’m very satisfied with the heater. Low consumption, temperature-controlled, and I can do the maintenance myself. Annual cleaning, nozzle and oil filter replacement are still manageable for me. Without skimping and with a properly warm house, I consume 1000 liters (264 gallons) of heating oil per year.
I assume that I’m well supplied heating-wise until the end of my life. I have wood stored dry for the next 10–15 years, heating oil is still affordable, and in a pinch, I actually have a few old oil radiators stored in the barn.
W
WilderSueden25 Oct 2023 11:17We decided not to install a heated towel rail and are managing just fine without it. I also don’t understand what everyone does in the bathroom that requires it to be 24 degrees Celsius (75°F). You’re not standing around naked for ages—you just dry off and get dressed, right?
R
Radfahrer25 Oct 2023 11:19No one will truly know how the electricity they use (grid supply) was generated, or do you really believe that your neighbor receives coal power while you get wind energy?
About 20 years ago, it was possible to fully heat a bathroom with an air source heat pump. Today, when almost every heating installer is required to install heat pumps, this seems to have become a problem.
About 20 years ago, it was possible to fully heat a bathroom with an air source heat pump. Today, when almost every heating installer is required to install heat pumps, this seems to have become a problem.
J
Jessica38825 Oct 2023 11:20WilderSueden schrieb:
We decided not to install a towel radiator and are managing fine without one. I also don’t understand what everyone does in the bathroom that requires it to be 24°C (75°F). You’re not standing around naked forever; you dry off and get dressed, right? This is going to turn into a pointless debate…
One person drives a Skoda, another a Porsche. Some consider 75m² (800 sq ft) large, others find 200m² (2,150 sq ft) small…
And we just want it to be warm in the bathroom.
W
WilderSueden25 Oct 2023 11:27The discussion is not pointless. You cannot heat a house completely differently in each room because the exterior walls provide much better insulation than the interior walls. You want it especially warm but complain about the heating costs. There were certainly some mistakes made in the system installation, and it is unnecessarily complex (which encourages such mistakes). However, a large part of the problems can also be attributed to the user. Of course, the architect is the only one to blame 😉
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