ᐅ Floor Plan for a 164 sqm Solid Construction Urban Villa on a Rear Lot

Richard-MD schrieb:

The only major change was moving the entrance "further down -

Without this change, the floor plan itself (without considering the house on the plot) has already improved. The change makes everything worse!

Richard-MD schrieb:

My reason for not hiring an architect is simple: we liked the attached floor plan so much that we considered hiring an architect unnecessary.

Ah, the old misconception of the architect as just a floor plan draftsman. That has always been a recipe for own goals.

Richard-MD schrieb:

I was very enthusiastic about the floor plan. It was already somewhat tailored to our needs. The main changes were moving the entrance "further down – towards the southwest" and spatially separating the living area from the dining area. In my opinion, it wasn’t bad at all.

You made a very significant change by altering the basic shape from square to rectangular landscape format. Surprisingly, the design survived this bold step quite well. The original form reminds me of the house of @WilderSueden (whom I just nudged three times on Line 3).

Richard-MD schrieb:

I am all the more grateful for the helpful comments.
The restriction of the building application to the second building line really limits where I can place the house. I marked what I mean with a red line on the site plan. This condition basically leaves me no choice but to cover half of my plot with paving for the driveway (which really annoys me). Or am I missing an option here?

Which specific comments were those – and are they still helpful, considering the original idea from your zoning plan authority to set the rear edge of the building area along the building line? – Here, good advice is hard to come by, and being generous with impermeable surfaces is basically a matter of fairness.

Richard-MD schrieb:

I would invest money immediately to hire an architect, but as someone outside the industry, how am I supposed to find out who does a good job? What I’ve learned is that an architect’s website does not reflect their actual competence.

I recently wrote about this in https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/einfamilienhaus-200qm-mit-doppelgarage-auf-trapezfoermigem-grundstueck.45481/page-11#post-642375 and https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/baugrundstueck-erworben-fuer-den-bau-eines-einfamilienhaus-weitere-planungsschritte.46193/page-2#post-642966 – and by now, you should also know how to get in touch with me – then I’ll help you find your architect.

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11ant schrieb:

You changed something very important, namely the basic shape from square to landscape orientation. Surprisingly, this daring step was well preserved in the design. The original shape reminds me of @WilderSueden’s house (whom I just nudged three times on Thread 3).

It is actually quite similar to ours. I’m quite glad that we left out the home office on the ground floor. With three windowed sides, the open living area gains significantly in real and perceived size. For our roughly 130sqm (1400 sq ft), this is more important than for 164sqm (1765 sq ft). Upstairs we arranged things a bit differently, but next time I would probably do it more like this.
The extension is great in some ways… tradespeople can go straight from the front door in their dirty shoes into the utility room, and the entrance area is more rounded. But the house becomes extremely wide because of it. Looking back, I would seriously consider making the house wider overall and leaving out the extension.

Hello everyone,

I took the forum’s advice and decided not to hesitate in contacting an architect (A.). The initial meeting went well, and next week we will schedule a consultation to discuss the requirements. For this, two hours are initially planned for just under 300 euros. For design phases 1 and 2, and then, if we get along well, phase 3, the architect—who seems both professionally and personally competent—wants to charge according to the HOAI fee schedule. This means about 14,000 euros for phases 1 to 3 for a city villa with 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft). He would not accept a flat fee. In my budget, I had estimated between 7,500 and 9,000 euros for the architect. My impression from this forum was that it is common to negotiate a flat fee with an architect. Would that be unusual for you? On abetterplace, these services are offered for 6,000 to 9,000 euros. The downsides of that, of course, are no local presence, etc., but many architects there have a good reputation and portfolio.

Good luck

Richard

At Abetterplace, the 1-3 models are sometimes offered for as low as €3500. I’m not sure what to make of that.
@11ant is an expert, maybe he can explain this?

Richard-MD schrieb:

Hello everyone,
I took the forum’s advice and decided not to shy away from contacting an architect (A.).

Hello dear Richard, I can only highly recommend that (and my reply to your email from the day before yesterday evening will follow right after; I was busy on the blog this morning). Since your plot is a rear property, even without a slope, it is significantly better planned by an architect you hire yourself than by a general contractor’s draftsman. Additionally, in your particular case (because of what I consider a legally questionable building line), it is advisable to make an initial inquiry to clarify any exemption. I see this building line as a limitation on your planning options and would find it, frankly, "desirable" to have it softened somewhat. Your house request itself is mainstream enough that I can at least understand the inclination to settle initially with a draftsman.

Richard-MD schrieb:

The initial meeting went well, and next week we will schedule a session to discuss the requirements. For that, two hours are initially planned at just under 300 euros. For design phases 1 and 2, and the subsequent phase 3—if agreed upon based on mutual chemistry—the architect, who seems professionally and socially competent, […]

Have you now had this appointment with the architect whose professional assessment you didn’t dare trust last week? (After some initial research, I could at least agree with the description "socially competent," though I have not yet formed a final opinion on their professional competence).

Richard-MD schrieb:

[…] billed according to HOAI. That means for a city villa with 160 sqm (1722 sq ft) design phases 1 to 3, about 14,000 euros. He would not accept a flat fee.

Extrapolated to the recommended total contract scope from phases 1 to 8, that amounts to a rather hefty roughly 40,300 euros (excluding the visit of the Brahmin for house blessing), which seems a bit extravagant to me for a single-family house without golden faucets.

Richard-MD schrieb:

At Abetterplace, these services are offered for 6,000–9,000 euros. The disadvantages are obvious (no local proximity, etc.), yet many architects there have a good reputation and work samples.

I would be happy to find an architect near your building site, but in my view, "A better Place" also has a corresponding network of partners. I haven’t fully figured out their organization yet. Their assessment that the same design can be implemented equally well with different construction methods is, in my opinion, wishful thinking. They provide pricing examples on their website that seem somewhat discounted to me but fundamentally credible, and your fee expectations appear realistic. As is generally known, I explicitly recommend module A covering design phases 1 and 2, even if—assuming a good gut feeling about the suitability of the planner—phase 3 will follow anyway for both construction methods.

HungrigerHugo schrieb:

At Abetterplace, phases 1 to 3 are sometimes offered for even 3,500 euros. I don’t know what to make of that?
@11ant is an expert, maybe he can explain?

I assume you do not mean the term expert as an insult—though I am allergic to it: colloquially, experts refer to people like Professor Nonsense & Co. who spread their private opinions as "scientific facts" on prime-time TV. I prefer not to be labeled that way and rather use the term professional, which I consider a feasible self-commitment.

Now to the content of your question: I know "A better Place" as partners of the consultant and construction supervisor Beuler, who specializes in prefab houses. It is therefore understandable that they offer a scope of services optimized for this cooperation concept. Clients I advise or who follow my default house-building schedule would certainly also hire these architects, but initially only for "module A" covering design phases 1 and 2. A commission for architects is always advisable in my opinion, but not in a first contract portion that has already gone beyond the "proofing phase."

Unfortunately, one still has to "explain" the offer structure of such architects today—but I believe this will not last much longer. In my view, they already belong to the "Architects 2030" type—in the typical project scale here on the forum (single-family houses with or without a granny flat, building class 1 / knowledge disclosure procedure / permit-exempt), applying the HOAI phases model (omitting the unnecessary phase 9 there) is very helpful, but its fee table is "not suitable" to the point of being "unreasonable." The magistrate of today no longer wears a Mozart wig with his robe. Architects for single-family homes regularly deal with private clients acting in their own interest; to lump these and their projects together with public clients or investors in multi-family buildings is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Expecting a flat fee offer from an architect for a home project seems to me both modern and expedient, ideally within about two weeks after the introductory meeting when expectations have been defined (not before). An acquisition conversation can be offered free of charge, but for the introductory meeting, a fixed or hourly fee is appropriate. If I were an architect, I would charge the hourly rate of a lawyer (if the client has a wish list) or a chief physician (if the client brings a detailed presentation). Immediately quoting a price for the further process, in my opinion, speaks against a conscientious architect. Carefully considered—as I said, about two weeks of deliberation is a reasonable and fair expectation for all parties—a fitting fee can then be found. Up to this point, I would approach one or two architects; mass casting would be pointless.

Conclusion: flat fee yes (but not immediately), fee amount market-appropriate and fair, initial commission only up to the proofing phase with options to extend, following the guiding rule "3 + 5 = 8."

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