Development Plan / Restrictions
Client Requirements
House Design
If you have to compromise, on which details/expansions
-Can you compromise: Honestly, we don’t want to compromise on anything
-Can’t compromise: See above
Why has the design developed as it is now? e.g.,
Standard design from the planner? Roughly yes, with minor changes by us
Which requests were implemented by the architect? Partially
What makes the design particularly good or bad in your opinion? see 130 characters summary
No comment
What is the main/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Our requirements have basically been implemented as described above, but we are unsure if living-dining area and office could benefit from a few extra square meters, ideally through smart redesigns. We would also like a narrower staircase. We like the upper floor overall. The basement has not been planned in detail yet, but the question of an external entrance is open. We appreciate any ideas and input as we are quite inexperienced, and the experts here have already contributed great suggestions.
| Plot Size | 1700 m² (1,830 yd²) |
| Slope | Yes, but only in the garden area |
| Floor Area Ratio (FAR) | 160 m² (1,722 yd²) (see plan) |
| Floor Space Index (FSI) | See plan |
| Building envelope, building line and boundary | See plan |
| Edge development | See plan |
| Number of parking spaces on the property | 2 |
| Number of floors | Basement, Ground floor, Upper floor |
| Roof type | Gable roof |
| Architectural style | |
| Orientation | |
| Maximum heights / restrictions, maximum ridge height | Unknown |
Client Requirements
| Architectural style, roof type, building type | Single-family house |
| Basement, number of floors | Basement yes, ground floor, upper floor |
| Number of occupants, ages | 2 adults (32 & 33), possible 2 children |
| Office: family use or home office? | Home office |
| Space requirements on ground floor, upper floor | Living area + kitchen, guest WC, storage room, office, bedroom, dressing room, 2 children’s rooms, bathroom |
| Occasional overnight guests per year | Max. 1 |
| Open or closed architecture | Living area open, rest mostly closed |
| Conservative or modern construction | Generally balanced but leaning towards modern |
| Number of dining seats | 6-8 |
| Fireplace | Yes |
| Music / stereo wall | No |
| Balcony, roof terrace | No |
| Garage, carport | Garage |
| Kitchen garden, greenhouse | Garden |
| Special notes | We would like to enlarge the office a bit so it could later be used as a bedroom, in case we want to live on one floor as parents |
House Design
| Designed by | Architect |
| What do you particularly like? Why? | The plot itself is wonderfully idyllic and the terrace and living-dining area are oriented towards nature. |
| What do you dislike? Why? | The office might be too small. Unsure if the living-dining area is too small as well (perhaps some clever adjustments could optimize space). We are still unsure about the kitchen layout, which type of kitchen fits best here and how much space it requires. The staircase is too large. The basement has not been discussed in detail yet, but is planned without an external entrance – we consider an external entrance essential and would appreciate opinions from the forum here. |
| Estimated cost according to architect/designer | ~ 3000 € per m² of living space |
| Personal price limit for the house, including fittings | No limit, but aiming to stay within 600,000 € |
| Preferred heating technology | Heat pump |
If you have to compromise, on which details/expansions
-Can you compromise: Honestly, we don’t want to compromise on anything
-Can’t compromise: See above
Why has the design developed as it is now? e.g.,
Standard design from the planner? Roughly yes, with minor changes by us
Which requests were implemented by the architect? Partially
What makes the design particularly good or bad in your opinion? see 130 characters summary
No comment
What is the main/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Our requirements have basically been implemented as described above, but we are unsure if living-dining area and office could benefit from a few extra square meters, ideally through smart redesigns. We would also like a narrower staircase. We like the upper floor overall. The basement has not been planned in detail yet, but the question of an external entrance is open. We appreciate any ideas and input as we are quite inexperienced, and the experts here have already contributed great suggestions.
11ant schrieb:
Floor area ratio and plot ratio refer to something different, namely the building density of the plot. Basically, you haven’t provided any of the information from the land use template of the development plan here. Planning to use the office as a bedroom for an elderly person is a common but naïve mistake. The staircase affects the entire design; in my opinion, its step rhythm is only tolerable for those without a sense of rhythm. I would have discarded this flawed construction already during the preliminary design phase. I would swap the positions of the toilet and the shower. Describing it as a “slope, but only garden area” is too vague to offer meaningful suggestions. I don’t follow the idea of including a basement here. Nowadays, I wouldn’t install a fireplace anymore. The load-bearing walls are unfortunately positioned unfavorably. Thanks also for your contribution!
To be honest, I think we don’t have all the information yet or aren’t that far along.
What do you think about the idea of moving the office completely to the basement, relocating the ground floor bathroom to where the office currently is, and then making the living room a bit larger? I’m just not sure how advisable it is to have an office in the basement. Do you have any thoughts on that?
The staircase seems to be a clear misunderstanding. What type of staircase would you recommend here? Also, to bring more light into the hallway?
Why would you swap the positions of the toilet and the shower?
We would like to use the basement for sure: technical room, extra pantry, a games room, etc. Why would you build without a basement?
In what way are the load-bearing walls positioned unfavorably? What thoughts do you have on that?
Thank you very much for your input!
Michi1! schrieb:
To be honest, I think we don’t have the information yet or we’re not at that stage. This information is included in the development plan within the usage template, which is basically the quick access box. Understanding it is absolutely essential for any practical design planning. Unless your architects explain every point in plain language, you should not start any planning process at all. This is the crucial check before moving forward!
Michi1! schrieb:
Maybe I should mention that we are still at the very beginning of planning and have basically only created the third floor plan with minor changes from the original, and the staircase—which we don’t really want—was included, but we definitely want to change it. Then please show the two previous drafts. The plans shown here already have the level of detail of a design development. If you are actually only in the schematic design phase, that unfortunately suggests an unprofessional approach. Start with the volume/massing first; refinements come after the main structure is established. And the staircase layout is like the identity of a floor plan. You are clearly not communicating well with your architects—where did you find them? Either change the way you communicate or change your architects!
Michi1! schrieb:
I will definitely be working from home more often, so we are aiming for 10m² (108ft²). [...] One idea is to put the office completely in the basement, [...] but I’m not sure how advisable an office in the basement is. [...] Our property is really the main highlight in terms of space, So which is it—is the property the highlight, or do you want to enjoy looking at the light well wall while working from home? An office is also a living space and requires a second emergency exit.
Michi1! schrieb:
We’re planning an appointment with the kitchen supplier soon, and after that I’ll upload an updated floor plan because a lot will still change. Precisely because the kitchen can change quite a bit, you should develop the floor plan in dialogue with the kitchen studio from the start.
Michi1! schrieb:
Why would you swap the toilet and shower? Showers and baths are closer together than toilets and baths. The odors associated with using the toilet should not mix with the scents of bath oils in the ventilation system. Important business can sometimes be urgent, yet here a long hallway to the toilet is planned. The route from the door to the toilet should be quick and direct, not like a slow regional train making stops at every village.
Michi1! schrieb:
Well, we would definitely use a basement: for the technical room, extra pantry, football room, etc. Why would you build without a basement? If the plot really has a slope only towards the garden, 11ant’s basement rule (see also "With or without a basement: a rule as a decision-making tool" on Bauen jetzt) clearly states that a basement is a luxury. Please show the site plan including elevation levels.
Michi1! schrieb:
In what way are the load-bearing walls positioned unfavorably? What are your thoughts on this? Firstly, in the upper floor they are not positioned directly over those on the ground floor, but rather just next to them (shear forces!). Additionally, inside the upper floor they are misaligned under the main ridge beam. My thought here is "sloppy architectural work" :-(
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
H
hanghaus202314 Oct 2023 13:45Show us the plot of land and the neighborhood. Photos and aerial view.
I assume the architect has the zoning plan. Why don’t we have it here?
Don’t you have any elevation data? The architect should have that as well.
I assume the architect has the zoning plan. Why don’t we have it here?
Don’t you have any elevation data? The architect should have that as well.
Michi1! schrieb:
Maybe I should mention that we are still at the very beginning of the planning stage. You wouldn’t guess that from the already quite detailed design.
Michi1! schrieb:
What do you think speaks against having the entrance on the east side? Nothing at all. It was just a question because I couldn’t find the north arrow.
Michi1! schrieb:
We are planning to schedule an appointment with the kitchen designer soon. I think that’s way too early since the room layout isn’t fixed yet. Planning the space is quite easy once you roughly know whether you want a small island, a huge island, a tall cabinet block, or a galley kitchen. So if you reserve “enough” space with a rough furniture sketch and are satisfied with the basic structure of the entire house design, then you can start planning the kitchen in more detail.
Michi1! schrieb:
How would you design the hallway differently? Do you have any ideas for us? Michi1! schrieb:
So that some light floods into the corridor, what do you think? I would avoid a corridor altogether. A corridor feels like a 3-room kitchen-bathroom setup. You don’t need “hallways” in a spacious house. It doesn’t fit. Okay, if you like corridors and want them, that’s your choice. But here, I really don’t see the point of a 7-meter (23-foot) long corridor.
Michi1! schrieb:
Why would you build without a basement? Put differently: Why should you build a basement on such a large plot? I believe you still owe us the plot ratio or the building envelope details? Is there anything restricting you there?
Michi1! schrieb:
I just don’t know if having an office in the basement is advisable. With a great view and enough space, nothing stands in the way of an office, right?
Michi1! schrieb:
Well, we would definitely use the basement: utility room, extra pantry, football room, etc. All of that can be nicely compacted or combined behind or between the garage: football room (whatever that is) with a patio door and an open view behind the garage next to the office… or something like that. Storage and technical rooms inside or in-between. Or similar.
If I have such a great view to the west, opposite the entrance door, I want to see it as soon as I come in. The view from the entrance area or foyer should create excitement for the house and garden. I also see the terrace more as part of the kitchen area, while the living room can do without a view since people tend to relax on the couch when it gets darker outside. Possibly then, they watch TV more.
Enjoying the view in the summer is done from the garden or terrace. A view from the office is of course a nice-to-have. Sunlight through south-facing windows is naturally important as well. That’s why I would place the entrance more centrally or further down the plan, with an open-plan living area like now, but swap the living room and kitchen so that when you come home you look through the kitchen and the windows, the staircase opposite the entrance, office on the west side, and so on. Hopefully, the rest will adjust accordingly.
ypg schrieb:
It was just a question because I couldn't find the north arrow.Yes, as a confirmation, a north arrow is also useful on oriented drawings.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
All in all, as ypg already said, it’s doable but a bit dull.
I’m having a hard time with the bathroom. It somehow feels pieced together. A narrow cabinet half-hidden behind the door makes it feel more like a student dorm than a planned house. Then the washbasins get a very prominent, long spot in the middle – but this comes at the expense of the toilet, which turns into a strange tiny cubicle. An L-shaped privacy screen gives it a school bathroom cubicle vibe, and to the left of the toilet there’s an odd empty space that’s basically useless (except maybe for a huge magazine rack).
The kitchen has already been mentioned – I’d also first think about what kind of kitchen you want in principle, and then plan the room accordingly. Other things might have to take a backseat in the planning, but a kitchen is such an essential and central part of every house that it deserves attention right from the start. What doesn’t work at all is this pilgrimage route between the sink and the cooktop. Imagine how often you’ll have to walk back and forth there while cooking or working, usually carrying stuff you’d rather not transport over a long distance because it’s dripping, hot, or something else.
The upstairs hallway is reduced to a minimum. That’s possible – I had that in my first rental house – but I would never design it that way in my own home afterward. A completely empty hallway that in the middle offers a square dancing hall is really uncomfortable. You can’t even place a chest of drawers anywhere. It’s a matter of taste. But maybe I’m just some kind of hallway fanatic trying to convince others of hallway madness. We built more hallway space than others have living rooms. We’ve been criticized for it here in the floor plan discussions. I’d love to tell you more but don’t have time now, I have to go lie down in my oversized hallway. 😉
Good luck Kati
I’m having a hard time with the bathroom. It somehow feels pieced together. A narrow cabinet half-hidden behind the door makes it feel more like a student dorm than a planned house. Then the washbasins get a very prominent, long spot in the middle – but this comes at the expense of the toilet, which turns into a strange tiny cubicle. An L-shaped privacy screen gives it a school bathroom cubicle vibe, and to the left of the toilet there’s an odd empty space that’s basically useless (except maybe for a huge magazine rack).
The kitchen has already been mentioned – I’d also first think about what kind of kitchen you want in principle, and then plan the room accordingly. Other things might have to take a backseat in the planning, but a kitchen is such an essential and central part of every house that it deserves attention right from the start. What doesn’t work at all is this pilgrimage route between the sink and the cooktop. Imagine how often you’ll have to walk back and forth there while cooking or working, usually carrying stuff you’d rather not transport over a long distance because it’s dripping, hot, or something else.
The upstairs hallway is reduced to a minimum. That’s possible – I had that in my first rental house – but I would never design it that way in my own home afterward. A completely empty hallway that in the middle offers a square dancing hall is really uncomfortable. You can’t even place a chest of drawers anywhere. It’s a matter of taste. But maybe I’m just some kind of hallway fanatic trying to convince others of hallway madness. We built more hallway space than others have living rooms. We’ve been criticized for it here in the floor plan discussions. I’d love to tell you more but don’t have time now, I have to go lie down in my oversized hallway. 😉
Good luck Kati
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