ᐅ Kitchen Planning for Renovation: Question About Window and Appliances

Created on: 10 Sep 2023 01:47

Hello everyone,
as part of our house building planning (see: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-neubau-auf-bungalow-bestandskeller-1-5-geschossige.44686/) we are currently focusing on the kitchen.

On the ground floor (see floor plans https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-neubau-auf-bungalow-bestandskeller-1-5-geschossige.44686/post-631246) we are planning a kitchen wall unit plus a cooking island. We already received a quote from a kitchen studio for this. We removed 3-4 wall cabinets in our subsequent SH3D self-planning (see attachment), but the offer still roughly fits:

- induction cooktop + recirculation hood: Bora PURU (~2300€)
- oven: AEG BPK435060M (~850€)
- dishwasher: Siemens SX63H800BE (720€)
- side-by-side refrigerator, chairs, dining table not included
- base cabinets with drawers/pull-outs
- cooking island 2.1 x 1.2m (7ft x 4ft) with cutout for a column (structurally necessary)
- including installation, 5-year warranty
- 23,000€ (estimated about 21,500€ with the current design and fewer wall cabinets)

Overall, we are happy with the design: We have plenty of space, lots of storage, and easy workflows ...
Nevertheless, we have a few questions and would appreciate if anyone could support us here:

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with the mentioned electrical appliances?
Could it make sense to remove the appliances from the offer? The installation of appliances purchased separately by the kitchen studio costs 85€ per appliance, but then the 5-year warranty is lost. The advantage: I have a wider selection of brands (for example, cooktops are only offered by Bora and Neff) and if lucky, you might get a good deal.
We would like a large window above the sink (1km (0.62 miles) clear view of greenery in that direction). Ideally, this window would be uninterrupted by a mullion. With the size we have in mind, it will be difficult to realize such a window with an opening tilt or swivel function. So it will probably be fixed glazing. Do you see the missing ventilation function as a critical issue? Although a controlled ventilation system is planned, there is still quite a bit of steam generated right at the sink. Additionally, the seating window at the top left of the plan will also be fixed glazed...
For ergonomic reasons, we have placed the dishwasher at a raised height. Because of this, it is very close to the bench/seating window area. We fear that loading the dishwasher will cause a lot of dripping (for example, when placing not completely empty coffee cups upside down in the upper rack) and that the upholstery/cushions/surfaces of the bench below will suffer. Does anyone have experience with the “dripping” risk around raised dishwashers?
Do you consider the quoted price reasonable?
Are there any general tips or suggestions for improvement regarding room layout, ergonomics, or design...?

Thank you very much!

Modern kitchen with cooking island, three orange bar stools, wooden column and table in the foreground.

Open floor plan: kitchen with island and dining table, adjacent living room in the plan

3D kitchen with island, cooktop and bar stools next to dining area in open floor plan

Mal Bauen11 Sep 2023 21:41

#19

kati1337 schrieb:

Have you ever taken your change requests to the kitchen planner?

Not yet, we’ve had the plans since Friday and have been experimenting with them over the weekend. That will be the next step.

Personally, I find it easier to overlook asymmetry, but the consensus here in the forum leans toward more visual calm. We’ll see if we can find a compromise.

We’re not quite comfortable with the tall cabinets above the window yet, despite their nicer appearance.
If they are at a practical height (bottom edge below 170cm (67 inches)), the window glass minus the window tape and frame only goes up to about 160cm (63 inches). That means I have a beam right in front of my eyes and look downwards at the greenery. To see the horizon or a bit of sky, I’d have to bend down, which I’d find unfortunate. Even though it looks great in the nice graphics and online pictures (thanks @Bertram100!), I think it would bother us.
If we make the windows larger, the upper cabinets shift up to over 200cm (79 inches). Then I can still open the door and reach a little at the front edge, but without a stool, I can’t reach much more.

Costruttrice11 Sep 2023 21:54

#20

Then just leave out the upper cabinets and simply box it in. For example, in our case, the top row is just a panel in kitchen cabinet front style instead of upper cabinets, because no one would be able to reach it properly in everyday use.

ypg11 Sep 2023 21:55

#21

Mal Bauen schrieb:

That means I have a beam directly in front of my eyes and am looking diagonally down into the greenery.

That’s not quite right: the line of sight or head tilt inside the house is downward. Especially in the kitchen, the view is usually focused on the countertop.

Mal Bauen schrieb:

To see the horizon or a bit of sky, I would have to bend down.

Well… actually, there is usually a window in the kitchen to provide natural daylight. Especially at the sink, you are often looking downward anyway. We deliberately chose this kind of window to look more into our garden rather than at the nearby neighbor’s house. The sky can be seen from other windows in the house. I consider this window format in the kitchen to be underrated and innovative.

Bertram10011 Sep 2023 22:01

#22

Depending on the storage needs, the compartments above the window can be quite useful. I keep a sizable shoebox there with user manuals, old boxes from various deliveries, Christmas decorations, miscellaneous items like the ice tray and bottle holder from the fridge and freezer, partly used paint cans that I think I’ll still use, and so on. These cabinets serve as my basement substitute for items that are rarely used.

Occasionally, I need to fetch the Ikea step stool (costing about 109 euros), which is stored hanging from the ceiling in the utility room since it’s not used often and would take up a lot of space in a cabinet. A folding ladder can be slid behind a cabinet somewhere. That works as well.

Unless you have enough storage space, this isn’t really necessary. However, I find it more practical than most people assume.

Mal Bauen11 Sep 2023 22:47

#23

ypg schrieb:

Well… usually there is a window in the kitchen to let in natural daylight.

I basically agree with you.

In our case, it’s a bit different because the window actually serves two purposes.
The view to the east is by far the most beautiful. We have an expansive open landscape stretching for kilometers (miles) in that direction. That’s one reason why we designed the kitchen island as a breakfast bar facing that way. We also considered moving the living room there but realized we spend most of our time in the kitchen. Now our challenge is to combine the lovely outside view with a practical and visually appealing kitchen layout.

Green grass field with rows of trees in the background, leafy frame at the top edge

ypg11 Sep 2023 23:30

#24

Mal Bauen schrieb:

That’s partly why the kitchen island is used as a bar table with a clear line of sight in that direction. We also considered moving the living room there but realized we spend most of our time in the kitchen.

Yes, sorry… people don’t sit on bar stools just to look out of a window that is 2-3 meters (6.5-10 feet) away from the stools. People also don’t stand in the kitchen staring out the window. Maybe during the construction phase, but not in everyday life and daily routines.
You’re planning uncomfortable stools for the adults facing east and a seating window in the kitchen for the kids facing south. Both are planned without considering real-life use!!! Sorry!

ᐅ Kitchen Planning for Renovation: Question About Window and Appliances

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