ᐅ Preparing a Smart Home for Future Expansion (No Wireless/Cloud)
Created on: 3 Sep 2023 13:18
N
Numrollen
Hello,
I am currently building a house; the walls are up, and the roof will be installed in the next few days. I work in IT, but for cost reasons, and because my electrician isn’t very familiar with the topic, I haven’t paid much attention to smart home systems. HOWEVER, I would like to prepare everything so that the basics are in place. I would rather not have to open up walls again later just because I got bored. Ideally, KNX would be great, but it’s quite expensive. My preferred option is probably Home Assistant; I will definitely install my own server using Docker/VMs. That will be a lot of work. Or simply a basic system like Homematic wired. This is my intention and line of thought. Here are some additional points to help understand what is important to me and what I have already planned.
- Power over Ethernet (PoE) RJ45 cables planned so far for the garage door, 2 outdoor cameras (if installed), front door, and 2 ceiling access points.
- I do not want any product that requires an internet connection. If there is an app, it should be optional and accessed via VPN into the house before use—no “cloud product” from a manufacturer. Also for data privacy reasons.
- I would like everything to be wired wherever possible, no wireless/Wi-Fi.
Now that electrical wiring is about to begin and I will soon be chiseling wall channels:
- What makes sense to wire, and which type of cables? For example, electric roller shutters are currently controlled by a classic switch at the door. Which cables should I run down to the fuse box? Just extend the existing 2-wire cable? Or should I run at least one RJ45 cable per room to the control boxes?
- For lighting, I might extend only outdoor lights and living room lights. The hallway will be controlled by a motion sensor, and I don’t currently see any point in individual room lighting control (or do I?).
- How much space should I allow for the distribution board/panel, or should I keep some free space? Or would it be better to install a second panel next to it in 1-4 years instead of reserving empty space now?
Are there any other aspects I should consider now that would be difficult to deal with later?
I would really appreciate it if someone with experience could help me out.
Best regards, and have a great Sunday!
I am currently building a house; the walls are up, and the roof will be installed in the next few days. I work in IT, but for cost reasons, and because my electrician isn’t very familiar with the topic, I haven’t paid much attention to smart home systems. HOWEVER, I would like to prepare everything so that the basics are in place. I would rather not have to open up walls again later just because I got bored. Ideally, KNX would be great, but it’s quite expensive. My preferred option is probably Home Assistant; I will definitely install my own server using Docker/VMs. That will be a lot of work. Or simply a basic system like Homematic wired. This is my intention and line of thought. Here are some additional points to help understand what is important to me and what I have already planned.
- Power over Ethernet (PoE) RJ45 cables planned so far for the garage door, 2 outdoor cameras (if installed), front door, and 2 ceiling access points.
- I do not want any product that requires an internet connection. If there is an app, it should be optional and accessed via VPN into the house before use—no “cloud product” from a manufacturer. Also for data privacy reasons.
- I would like everything to be wired wherever possible, no wireless/Wi-Fi.
Now that electrical wiring is about to begin and I will soon be chiseling wall channels:
- What makes sense to wire, and which type of cables? For example, electric roller shutters are currently controlled by a classic switch at the door. Which cables should I run down to the fuse box? Just extend the existing 2-wire cable? Or should I run at least one RJ45 cable per room to the control boxes?
- For lighting, I might extend only outdoor lights and living room lights. The hallway will be controlled by a motion sensor, and I don’t currently see any point in individual room lighting control (or do I?).
- How much space should I allow for the distribution board/panel, or should I keep some free space? Or would it be better to install a second panel next to it in 1-4 years instead of reserving empty space now?
Are there any other aspects I should consider now that would be difficult to deal with later?
I would really appreciate it if someone with experience could help me out.
Best regards, and have a great Sunday!
N
Numrollen3 Sep 2023 15:42Damn. I can’t edit anymore. So, as far as I know: The 4-core cable offered with a green conductor in 0.8mm (0.03 inches) is available in 100m (330 feet) lengths. The idea is to run that cable everywhere to whatever I want to control and whatever it’s supposed to control? If the roller shutter has 2 cores coming from it, how do you manage the wiring then? Are 2 cores installed unnecessarily?
I also advocate for being open to different technologies. I wouldn’t limit myself. Who knows what the next 15/20/25 years will bring? Imagine how advanced smart homes with large language models from, for example, OpenAI could become.
Of course, you can recreate everything yourself, run your own Raspberry Pi, or use Docker or the next generation of containers. Although the trend is already moving towards serverless solutions, such as Lambda functions.
However, self-built systems usually only work so-so and require ongoing maintenance.
And you’re not as skilled or as available as the thousands of experts at Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Alibaba, and so on.
Personally, I value my private time too much for that.
MaxiFrett
Also IT professional
IT/Cloud Security
Of course, you can recreate everything yourself, run your own Raspberry Pi, or use Docker or the next generation of containers. Although the trend is already moving towards serverless solutions, such as Lambda functions.
However, self-built systems usually only work so-so and require ongoing maintenance.
And you’re not as skilled or as available as the thousands of experts at Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Alibaba, and so on.
Personally, I value my private time too much for that.
MaxiFrett
Also IT professional
IT/Cloud Security
N
Numrollen3 Sep 2023 22:44Good evening,
yes, okay. Let’s simply consider moving towards KNX. Is installing a 4-conductor wiring still the current standard?
Best regards
yes, okay. Let’s simply consider moving towards KNX. Is installing a 4-conductor wiring still the current standard?
Best regards
Yes, KNX with the green bus cable and 4 wires is still the standard.
In the house (especially regarding the kind of data you actually want), the data is generally quite simple (blinds up/down, lights on/off/dimming – maybe multiple channels, etc.).
The 4 wires are still fully sufficient for that – for internet, decent cameras, and so on, you need to switch to Ethernet anyway.
However, a sensible KNX wiring setup is not the same as typical residential electrical wiring.
-> You can run the green cable everywhere (e.g., to a blind) and install an actuator behind the wall later, BUT
compared to that, it is significantly more expensive than running each blind cable back to the distribution board and having a large multi-channel actuator there.
So, I would also recommend getting a basic understanding of KNX and having it planned by a qualified electrician if your schedule still allows for it.
By the way, I don’t see KNX as a limitation for using AI in the near or distant future!
If none of that is an option, I think the Shelly approach is really not a bad idea (though I am definitely also an advocate for wired solutions).
In the house (especially regarding the kind of data you actually want), the data is generally quite simple (blinds up/down, lights on/off/dimming – maybe multiple channels, etc.).
The 4 wires are still fully sufficient for that – for internet, decent cameras, and so on, you need to switch to Ethernet anyway.
However, a sensible KNX wiring setup is not the same as typical residential electrical wiring.
-> You can run the green cable everywhere (e.g., to a blind) and install an actuator behind the wall later, BUT
compared to that, it is significantly more expensive than running each blind cable back to the distribution board and having a large multi-channel actuator there.
So, I would also recommend getting a basic understanding of KNX and having it planned by a qualified electrician if your schedule still allows for it.
By the way, I don’t see KNX as a limitation for using AI in the near or distant future!
If none of that is an option, I think the Shelly approach is really not a bad idea (though I am definitely also an advocate for wired solutions).
Numrollen schrieb:
Good evening,
okay. Let’s just start by considering KNX. Is wiring with 4 wires still the current standard?
Regards First, make sure you clearly understand WHERE you need to route the KNX cable. Before thinking further about it, you should at least have a basic understanding of what KNX actually is. You mention Home Assistant as a “smart home system”... HA is essentially just a good visualization tool; it does not directly switch, dim, or control devices. There must always be another system installed beneath it. With KNX, you can later add HA on top to create a nice user interface.
So: first do your homework and get a feel for what actuators, sensors, and everything in between are. Explaining all this from scratch here won’t work.