ᐅ Same Price: KfW 55 with Poroton solid masonry OR KfW 40 with Poroton insulated exterior wall system (ETICS)?
Created on: 5 May 2023 13:33
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Ari_tau
Hello everyone,
The recent shock with one house provider has settled, and we have started over again. We have made good progress, and one provider has now drawn our house and created several offers with different masonry options based on our request. We compared the financing and calculated it down (KfW 40 with 100,000 euros for 1.54% interest rate target).
Assumptions: The houses vary in price, but the more expensive one qualifies for KfW financing, so the costs balance out. The question now is:
Exactly the same house,
a) KfW 55 with Poroton (brick - 36.5 cm (14 inches) thickness / Thermo Plan S-8 or T-8), 36.5 cm (14 inches) monolithic construction
OR
b) KfW 40 with Poroton (brick - 24.0 cm (9.5 inches) thickness / Thermoplan T-14) plus 18 cm (7 inches) Styrodur insulation
For the KfW 40 house, the remaining debt after 10 years is 4,000 euros higher; however, assuming an annual heating cost saving of 200 euros compared to the KfW 55, this difference would be recovered within 20 years. Therefore, I would say the overall cost or remaining debt after 10 years is basically the same.
What would you choose and why? Can it be said that a KfW 40 house has a higher resale value?
Thanks and best regards!
The recent shock with one house provider has settled, and we have started over again. We have made good progress, and one provider has now drawn our house and created several offers with different masonry options based on our request. We compared the financing and calculated it down (KfW 40 with 100,000 euros for 1.54% interest rate target).
Assumptions: The houses vary in price, but the more expensive one qualifies for KfW financing, so the costs balance out. The question now is:
Exactly the same house,
a) KfW 55 with Poroton (brick - 36.5 cm (14 inches) thickness / Thermo Plan S-8 or T-8), 36.5 cm (14 inches) monolithic construction
OR
b) KfW 40 with Poroton (brick - 24.0 cm (9.5 inches) thickness / Thermoplan T-14) plus 18 cm (7 inches) Styrodur insulation
For the KfW 40 house, the remaining debt after 10 years is 4,000 euros higher; however, assuming an annual heating cost saving of 200 euros compared to the KfW 55, this difference would be recovered within 20 years. Therefore, I would say the overall cost or remaining debt after 10 years is basically the same.
What would you choose and why? Can it be said that a KfW 40 house has a higher resale value?
Thanks and best regards!
X
xMisterDx6 May 2023 10:19Sometimes I truly believe that if we were the generation of our (great) grandparents... Germany as we know it wouldn’t exist anymore. The kind of nonsense we’re discussing nowadays.
Spending tens of thousands of euros more just because the neighbor throws a party twice a year, which by the way has to be quieted down to normal conversation level by 10:00 PM (22h00)...
And in another forum, people complain about house prices that no one can afford anymore.
Walk-in closets are being built in hallways just for jackets and hats, while pantries are created for canned goods bought at discount supermarkets, where you can shop every day except Sundays and public holidays.
Sometimes I think a bit of recession would do us good... to bring some people back down to earth.
Spending tens of thousands of euros more just because the neighbor throws a party twice a year, which by the way has to be quieted down to normal conversation level by 10:00 PM (22h00)...
And in another forum, people complain about house prices that no one can afford anymore.
Walk-in closets are being built in hallways just for jackets and hats, while pantries are created for canned goods bought at discount supermarkets, where you can shop every day except Sundays and public holidays.
Sometimes I think a bit of recession would do us good... to bring some people back down to earth.
What does this have to do with the choice of stone?
At the time, filling it would have cost us 6,000 euros more. But we had no idea about all of this back then.
I still wonder why the experts keep recommending this stone. I just can’t understand it.
And I’m not talking about a party once a year. This is a new residential area. There’s always construction and activity, everyone has at least two children, lawns are mowed, and so on — there’s always something going on. I definitely wouldn’t want to experience all that noise and disturbance directly inside the house.
The 6,000 euros would have been worth it to me. I also would have accepted if someone had told me: I’m warning you, the stone is like this and that, and if you want it better, it will cost 6,000 euros. But the statement was: that’s all unnecessary. 30 km/h (18.6 mph) zone out in the countryside. It’s great. And that’s not just from one home builder. We were with several.
I think the original poster now has their answer and can act accordingly.
That I like to keep supplies in the house, just like my grandparents used to because the local supermarket might not be open every day from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. during a crisis, is irrelevant here.
At the time, filling it would have cost us 6,000 euros more. But we had no idea about all of this back then.
I still wonder why the experts keep recommending this stone. I just can’t understand it.
And I’m not talking about a party once a year. This is a new residential area. There’s always construction and activity, everyone has at least two children, lawns are mowed, and so on — there’s always something going on. I definitely wouldn’t want to experience all that noise and disturbance directly inside the house.
The 6,000 euros would have been worth it to me. I also would have accepted if someone had told me: I’m warning you, the stone is like this and that, and if you want it better, it will cost 6,000 euros. But the statement was: that’s all unnecessary. 30 km/h (18.6 mph) zone out in the countryside. It’s great. And that’s not just from one home builder. We were with several.
I think the original poster now has their answer and can act accordingly.
That I like to keep supplies in the house, just like my grandparents used to because the local supermarket might not be open every day from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. during a crisis, is irrelevant here.
xMisterDx schrieb:
Sometimes I think a bit of a recession might actually do us good... to bring some people back down to earth. Of course, there are also "downsides" when grandparents can no longer tell today’s kids stories about tough times—but those are only downsides in quotation marks. By the way, this year we are practically celebrating the "100 years since the peak of inflation" anniversary—and when I look at how much less everything at the mentioned Aldi cost just a year ago, about 20% less, I can understand the hoarders *LOL*
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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allstar836 May 2023 15:31With a monolithic structure, the foundation slab would also be 12cm (5 inches) larger on all sides, right? Because with the thinner block, the insulation does not go on top there? For a 10m * 10m* house, that would mean 12m² (130 square feet) of area that at least does not count as built-up space, correct? (10m * 10m * 0.12m)
allstar83 schrieb:
With the monolithic method, the slab would also be 12cm (5 inches) larger all around, right? Because with the thinner block, the insulation doesn’t go on top there? For a 10m * 10m (33ft * 33ft) house, that would mean about 12m² (130ft²) of area that doesn’t count as usable space, correct? (10m * 10m * 0.12m) I don’t follow this simple calculation (not just because of the included slip-up). Mathematically, you’d have to know which approach you’re taking here: Some consider the entire wall thickness, seeing the wall boundary as where room meets wall, regardless of the materials used. Others view it similarly but consider the boundary at the insulation/render interface. As an experienced planner, I belong to a third group, where the wall is defined along the building grid, with the reference edge at the transition between block and insulation. By the way, this last approach is the foundation of the so-called “avoidance of shoddy workmanship cavities.”
I would always design a slab, as well as a strip footing, to extend beyond the load-bearing wall layer on both sides (and in the case of a brick or stone veneer, also account for the total projection of that outer shell). This means the insulation partly extends “over” the slab. Exactly where the outer edge of the slab lies depends, as explained above, largely on the planner’s approach.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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WilderSueden7 May 2023 21:11allstar83 schrieb:
With a monolithic build, the slab would also be 12cm (5 inches) larger all around, right? Since the thinner blocks don’t have insulation on top? For a 10m * 10m* house, that would mean an additional 12m² (129 square feet) of area that doesn’t count as usable living space, correct? (10m * 10m * 0.12m)It depends. There is a method where the first course of blocks is laid using narrower blocks, and insulation is placed in front of them and the slab. From the second course on, the normal blocks are used.Similar topics