ᐅ Planned Throttling of Electric Vehicle Chargers and Heat Pumps
Created on: 15 Mar 2023 10:16
S
sub-xero
Hello dear photovoltaic enthusiasts,
Like many others, I had my new build equipped one year ago with a photovoltaic system, battery storage, heat pump, and electric vehicle charger. Everything is running to my highest satisfaction, and on average over the year, I am about 75% self-sufficient (including electricity for the heat pump).
Now, the politicians in our so-called banana republic Germany have come up with the brilliant idea to throttle the power supply for heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers starting in 2024. The reason is that our power grids would be completely overloaded with the expected development (electric cars and heat pumps). I understand that the promotion of electric vehicles and heat pumps does not fit well with the unplanned and poorly thought-out implementation of renewable energy, and therefore, shortages are likely to occur.
In this context, I am interested in how this throttling would actually be implemented in practice. Here are a few questions for open discussion:
The electricity I draw from the grid cannot be divided into "electricity for the EV charger," "electricity for the heat pump," "electricity for the household," etc. It is a total amount of X kW. Statements like:
According to the concept of the Federal Network Agency, if a shortage threatens, for example, EV chargers or heat pumps should be throttled down to a power of 3.7 kilowatts to prevent an overload.
are, in my view, completely unrealistic. The devices are not supplied individually from the grid. In a worst-case scenario, there would then be no electricity left for the freezer or the computer. That is obviously not acceptable.
Grid operators want to be able to "unilaterally and indefinitely" throttle devices in case of an impending grid overload. The planned regulation applies only to households that have installed, for example, an EV charger or a heat pump. The household itself would remain unaffected by a possible short-term dimming. The refrigerator, washing machine, and internet would continue to operate as usual.
How is this supposed to work technically?
In any case, the usefulness of installing heat pumps in houses without photovoltaic systems is questionable.
If private EV chargers are throttled, the trend toward e-mobility in Germany will definitely be further hindered. (Charging at 3.7 kW is possible and sufficient in many cases, but firstly, the power loss is relatively high, and secondly, in some situations, one wants to be able to charge faster with 11 kW.)
Like many others, I had my new build equipped one year ago with a photovoltaic system, battery storage, heat pump, and electric vehicle charger. Everything is running to my highest satisfaction, and on average over the year, I am about 75% self-sufficient (including electricity for the heat pump).
Now, the politicians in our so-called banana republic Germany have come up with the brilliant idea to throttle the power supply for heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers starting in 2024. The reason is that our power grids would be completely overloaded with the expected development (electric cars and heat pumps). I understand that the promotion of electric vehicles and heat pumps does not fit well with the unplanned and poorly thought-out implementation of renewable energy, and therefore, shortages are likely to occur.
In this context, I am interested in how this throttling would actually be implemented in practice. Here are a few questions for open discussion:
The electricity I draw from the grid cannot be divided into "electricity for the EV charger," "electricity for the heat pump," "electricity for the household," etc. It is a total amount of X kW. Statements like:
According to the concept of the Federal Network Agency, if a shortage threatens, for example, EV chargers or heat pumps should be throttled down to a power of 3.7 kilowatts to prevent an overload.
are, in my view, completely unrealistic. The devices are not supplied individually from the grid. In a worst-case scenario, there would then be no electricity left for the freezer or the computer. That is obviously not acceptable.
Grid operators want to be able to "unilaterally and indefinitely" throttle devices in case of an impending grid overload. The planned regulation applies only to households that have installed, for example, an EV charger or a heat pump. The household itself would remain unaffected by a possible short-term dimming. The refrigerator, washing machine, and internet would continue to operate as usual.
How is this supposed to work technically?
In any case, the usefulness of installing heat pumps in houses without photovoltaic systems is questionable.
If private EV chargers are throttled, the trend toward e-mobility in Germany will definitely be further hindered. (Charging at 3.7 kW is possible and sufficient in many cases, but firstly, the power loss is relatively high, and secondly, in some situations, one wants to be able to charge faster with 11 kW.)
D
Daniel_9316 Mar 2023 10:55Most heat pumps today are already equipped with ripple control receivers and can be switched off when the power grids are overloaded. Consumers typically receive cheaper tariffs in return.
This will not change much in the future: consumers who have a ripple control receiver or similar device will receive a smart meter, while new customers or new photovoltaic systems will be required to have one.
The reasons for this are clear. Large power plants were able to be ramped up and down proactively to manage consumption peaks. However, renewable energy unfortunately does not cooperate as predictably as we would like. Therefore, consumers need to be encouraged to adapt their usage through time-dependent tariffs and power limitation.
Additionally, there are partly aging grids—whether high, medium, or low voltage networks, transformers, or substations. There are simply weak points that are not designed to meet current demands...
This will not change much in the future: consumers who have a ripple control receiver or similar device will receive a smart meter, while new customers or new photovoltaic systems will be required to have one.
The reasons for this are clear. Large power plants were able to be ramped up and down proactively to manage consumption peaks. However, renewable energy unfortunately does not cooperate as predictably as we would like. Therefore, consumers need to be encouraged to adapt their usage through time-dependent tariffs and power limitation.
Additionally, there are partly aging grids—whether high, medium, or low voltage networks, transformers, or substations. There are simply weak points that are not designed to meet current demands...
A
Allthewayup18 Mar 2023 07:35To specifically target those who don’t have a heat pump tariff and therefore can’t be throttled yet, “smart meters” have now been introduced to address this as well. This “peak shaving” is all well and good, but the argument that smart meters allow certain tariffs to pull more electricity during times of low market prices will also smooth out these “valleys.” Supply and demand—the market quickly adapts to these consumption patterns. What remains is an average accustomed (high) electricity price. In my opinion, only the government benefits from this. It can once again shift its “failures” onto the citizens. And I’m not even just referring to the current administration; this has been neglected for decades, and the current one is basically just pulling the emergency brake.
We have not applied for any subsidies; the heat pump will run on household electricity, as will the charging station, logically. But I firmly expect that we will be affected by the smart meters when it’s time to replace the meter and will again be remotely controlled. The only real solutions left seem to be a property by a stream with a small hydropower plant, rooftop solar panels, and a 15m (50-foot) wind turbine—irony off :-D
We have not applied for any subsidies; the heat pump will run on household electricity, as will the charging station, logically. But I firmly expect that we will be affected by the smart meters when it’s time to replace the meter and will again be remotely controlled. The only real solutions left seem to be a property by a stream with a small hydropower plant, rooftop solar panels, and a 15m (50-foot) wind turbine—irony off :-D
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RotorMotor18 Mar 2023 07:58Allthewayup schrieb:
In my opinion, ultimately only the state benefits from this.But the state is us, and the benefit is precisely lower costs for grid expansion and maintaining excess capacity. Overall, this naturally makes electricity cheaper when the demand is managed smartly.
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Allthewayup18 Mar 2023 08:48RotorMotor schrieb:
The state is, after all, made up of us, and the benefit is lower costs for grid expansion and maintaining excess capacity.
Overall, electricity naturally becomes cheaper when demand is managed smartly. The state apparatus and the people have rarely been so far apart as they are today. But that is not the topic here.
How exactly are lower costs supposed to be achieved? Electricity is needed when it is needed. That has always been the case and will remain so in the medium to long term. Electricity consumption will soon—once the relevant new laws come into effect—rise sharply. Therefore, grid expansion will continue to be absolutely necessary, and maintaining excess capacity must even increase as we move closer to 100% renewable energy, because nothing is as unpredictable as wind and solar. Only hydropower from flowing water is capable of providing baseload power, and this today covers less than 10% of the current baseload.
In my personal opinion, this topic will become quite controversial because almost all individual targets are heading in opposite directions.
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RotorMotor18 Mar 2023 10:00Allthewayup schrieb:
The state apparatus and the people have rarely been so far apart as they are today. But that is not the topic.It seems like that is somewhat your topic after all. And many others are also worried now because they don’t understand the connections and feel like something is being taken away from them.
I tried to find statistics on satisfaction with government performance.
Not so easy, but most show a positive trend. How do you come to the assumption that we are currently at a low point?
Allthewayup schrieb:
How are lower costs supposed to be achieved? That’s exactly what I explained before. The grids and power plants don’t need to be designed for peak loads if we manage to reduce those peaks.
By the way, this was already the case before the energy transition. That’s why there have been off-peak tariffs and similar measures.
On Energy-Charts you can see how consumption varies strongly due to working hours, cooking, etc.
It fluctuates during the day between 40 and 80MW.
So, if we simply reduce charging of electric cars and heating a bit while cooking or, in the future, when a cloud covers the photovoltaic system, this saves a lot of peak load on the grid and generators.
Allthewayup schrieb:
Grid expansion therefore remains absolutely necessary, and maintaining surplus capacity must even increase as we approach 100% renewables.That is certainly fundamentally correct, but the points made above remain fully valid. The better and smarter the control systems, the less the expansion will cost all of us.
Allthewayup schrieb:
In my personal opinion, this topic will become quite controversial because pretty much all individual goals are heading in opposite directions.Once you understand how important it is to emit no more CO2, it should be clear that it is the least of our concerns if the heat pump doesn’t run for two hours and the room temperature fluctuates by only 0.1°C (0.18°F).RotorMotor schrieb:
varies between 40 and 80 MW throughout the day. Are you referring to the city of Erlangen or Buxtehude here – definitely not the Federal Republic of Germany… 🙄
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