ᐅ Single-family house floor plan on a slightly sloped plot, approximately 175 m²
Created on: 14 Feb 2023 13:53
U
Unnerfranggn
Hello,
we are a family of four and are planning our first own house.
We are completely new to this and hope to avoid some pitfalls or at least get some useful warnings here in the forum before making mistakes.
This is my first post here – please be patient if I have forgotten important details for you and I will try to add anything missing.
Hopefully, most questions can be answered from the questionnaire.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 439m² (according to development plan – residential area not fully serviced yet, plot not surveyed. Front approx. 13m (43 feet) wide, widening to 17m (56 feet) after a curve, approx. 27m (89 feet) long)
Slope: Gentle north-facing slope, plot rises about 2.5m (8 feet) towards the south
Site coverage ratio: 0.3
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: See development plan excerpt. 3m (10 feet) setback from road, otherwise according to BayBO (Bavarian building code). Carports/garages may also be built outside the building boundaries (not at the rear)
Edge development: Fill or similar up to a maximum of 2m (6.5 feet) above traffic surface
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors allowed: 2 full stories permitted
Roof style: Any allowed
Style: Detached or semi-detached house allowed
Orientation: As far as I can tell, we may choose the access road
Maximum heights/limits: Wall height 6.5m (21 feet) (“reference point is the respective topographically highest point at the public traffic area within the street facade length in front of the middle of the main building”). Ridge height 12m (39 feet).
Further regulations: The development plan feels very detailed, I don’t know what else might be relevant but can look it up. I believe I’m not allowed to share a link?!
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: We want a single-family house for a family of four with dogs. Preferably with a cozy garden.
Basement and floors: Due to the slope and a need for plenty of (storage) space, we considered a basement (facing north and partially above ground), plus 2 full floors. Knee wall (kniestock) 1.6–1.8m (5–6 feet) if possible. Preferred roof type is gable roof, currently planned with a 25° pitch.
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults, 2 children (5 and 6 years old), and 3 dogs
Space requirements on ground and upper floor: Our current ideas:
- Ground floor: open kitchen-living-dining area, guest toilet, pantry. Preferably a generous hallway/entrance area with room for arriving and storage.
- Upper floor: 2 children’s rooms, bright and spacious, children’s bathroom (with shower), master area with bedroom/walk-in closet/master bathroom (shower and bathtub).
- Basement: utility/technical room, storage, office, guest room. If possible, office and guest room with as large windows as possible facing downhill; the basement should protrude about 1–1.5m (3–5 feet) from the ground (facing north/towards the service road).
Office: Family use or home office? Office room with home office for 1 person.
Guests per year: 8–10 times per year, usually 2–4 guests for several days each
Open or closed architecture: Preferably as open and bright as possible
Conservative or modern construction: Normal?
Open kitchen, island: Kitchen preferably open, cooking island optional (or flush with wall for more countertop space), pantry desired
Number of dining seats: 4–10, often have guests for meals
Fireplace: No
Music/audio wall: “Regular TV/music family living room” with no special acoustic requirements
Balcony, roof terrace: Rather not – garden terrace is sufficient
Garage, carport: No garage needed, a carport with storage space for 1 car (+ space for garden tools and bikes, possibly with preparation for electric car charging) would be great
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, including reasons why certain things are desired or not:
- We want our own space with lots of light and room for everyone, including places to retreat and to work. The living-dining area with a large dining table should be the heart of family life.
- Originally, we wished for a “two-story gable bay window” (according to the catalog) to brighten the dining area and also enhance the exterior appeal. Financially, this is questionable (~€30,000 approx. cost, not yet included). Maybe a large seating window next to the dining area instead?
- We would like to modify the shown floor plans as follows (see hand-drawn sketches): In the basement, largest possible windows (light wells or shafts possible?) and 2 rooms as a living basement. On the ground floor, entrance from the east side, large hallway, pantry. On the upper floor, the children’s rooms should face south, the master area north. Generally, as many large windows as possible, especially in living spaces.
- We would like the carport including the shed described above to be located eastwards up to the plot boundary, preferably the full possible 9m (30 feet) length and as wide as possible when the house is sited as close as possible to the road on the west side. However, with the front door on the ground floor, the driveway to the carport would slope upward. The carport should also provide the canopy over the front door.
House Design
Who created the design: By us based on the “Evolution139” by Bien-Zenker plus “grid extensions”. Exterior dimensions based on current calculation 9.41m + 11.92m (31 feet + 39 feet).
What do you particularly like? Why? Open living area: living room is open but without a direct line of sight to the kitchen, large children’s rooms
What do you dislike? Why?
- We are unsure about the best layout for the entrance area including wardrobe/guest toilet/pantry. Should the hallway’s access to the living area be aligned with the front door or the stairs?
- As currently planned in our heads, only the guest toilet and master bathroom are stacked vertically. Children’s bathroom and utility room are in different areas – will this work?
Price estimate from architect/planner: House with grid extensions including basement (not a living basement), turnkey (KfW 40+ or NH40 standard): €520,000
Personal budget limit for the house including equipment: €600,000
Preferred heating system: Air-to-water heat pump with underfloor heating.
If you had to give up, on which details or upgrades
-you could give up:
-you cannot give up: Light, open living-dining area
Why is the design the way it is now?
We have a “pre-contract with price guarantee” with Bien-Zenker. After being allocated a plot by the municipality, we chose a house from the “Evolution” series that fits the plot dimensions. The internal layout should be “freely changeable,” or we could possibly choose another house from this series. Staircase shape and position should also be adjustable.
The floor plan screenshots come from the catalog or a preliminary plan from the seller. The hand-drawn floor plans reflect our ideas for the layout and the plot arrangement. I haven’t added windows yet.
With our ideas/wishes (and hopefully input/tips from you) the next step is the architect. Our architect so far does not seem to want to be very creative – if we give him a finished plan, he will probably just use it?! Hence, beforehand we ask for your opinions.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
- Does the plot layout make sense? Are there better alternatives?
- Are the carport and driveway feasible (incline? space by front door?)
- Can the bathrooms be located as per the sketches?
- Is a living basement financially possible?
- How much space is needed for light wells in front of basement windows?
- Ideas for floor plan variations or obvious mistakes?
- Obvious cost-saving potential?
Thanks in advance and have a sunny day!
Roland
Edit: The development plan excerpts are oriented north on top, south at bottom.
we are a family of four and are planning our first own house.
We are completely new to this and hope to avoid some pitfalls or at least get some useful warnings here in the forum before making mistakes.
This is my first post here – please be patient if I have forgotten important details for you and I will try to add anything missing.
Hopefully, most questions can be answered from the questionnaire.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 439m² (according to development plan – residential area not fully serviced yet, plot not surveyed. Front approx. 13m (43 feet) wide, widening to 17m (56 feet) after a curve, approx. 27m (89 feet) long)
Slope: Gentle north-facing slope, plot rises about 2.5m (8 feet) towards the south
Site coverage ratio: 0.3
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: See development plan excerpt. 3m (10 feet) setback from road, otherwise according to BayBO (Bavarian building code). Carports/garages may also be built outside the building boundaries (not at the rear)
Edge development: Fill or similar up to a maximum of 2m (6.5 feet) above traffic surface
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors allowed: 2 full stories permitted
Roof style: Any allowed
Style: Detached or semi-detached house allowed
Orientation: As far as I can tell, we may choose the access road
Maximum heights/limits: Wall height 6.5m (21 feet) (“reference point is the respective topographically highest point at the public traffic area within the street facade length in front of the middle of the main building”). Ridge height 12m (39 feet).
Further regulations: The development plan feels very detailed, I don’t know what else might be relevant but can look it up. I believe I’m not allowed to share a link?!
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: We want a single-family house for a family of four with dogs. Preferably with a cozy garden.
Basement and floors: Due to the slope and a need for plenty of (storage) space, we considered a basement (facing north and partially above ground), plus 2 full floors. Knee wall (kniestock) 1.6–1.8m (5–6 feet) if possible. Preferred roof type is gable roof, currently planned with a 25° pitch.
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults, 2 children (5 and 6 years old), and 3 dogs
Space requirements on ground and upper floor: Our current ideas:
- Ground floor: open kitchen-living-dining area, guest toilet, pantry. Preferably a generous hallway/entrance area with room for arriving and storage.
- Upper floor: 2 children’s rooms, bright and spacious, children’s bathroom (with shower), master area with bedroom/walk-in closet/master bathroom (shower and bathtub).
- Basement: utility/technical room, storage, office, guest room. If possible, office and guest room with as large windows as possible facing downhill; the basement should protrude about 1–1.5m (3–5 feet) from the ground (facing north/towards the service road).
Office: Family use or home office? Office room with home office for 1 person.
Guests per year: 8–10 times per year, usually 2–4 guests for several days each
Open or closed architecture: Preferably as open and bright as possible
Conservative or modern construction: Normal?
Open kitchen, island: Kitchen preferably open, cooking island optional (or flush with wall for more countertop space), pantry desired
Number of dining seats: 4–10, often have guests for meals
Fireplace: No
Music/audio wall: “Regular TV/music family living room” with no special acoustic requirements
Balcony, roof terrace: Rather not – garden terrace is sufficient
Garage, carport: No garage needed, a carport with storage space for 1 car (+ space for garden tools and bikes, possibly with preparation for electric car charging) would be great
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, including reasons why certain things are desired or not:
- We want our own space with lots of light and room for everyone, including places to retreat and to work. The living-dining area with a large dining table should be the heart of family life.
- Originally, we wished for a “two-story gable bay window” (according to the catalog) to brighten the dining area and also enhance the exterior appeal. Financially, this is questionable (~€30,000 approx. cost, not yet included). Maybe a large seating window next to the dining area instead?
- We would like to modify the shown floor plans as follows (see hand-drawn sketches): In the basement, largest possible windows (light wells or shafts possible?) and 2 rooms as a living basement. On the ground floor, entrance from the east side, large hallway, pantry. On the upper floor, the children’s rooms should face south, the master area north. Generally, as many large windows as possible, especially in living spaces.
- We would like the carport including the shed described above to be located eastwards up to the plot boundary, preferably the full possible 9m (30 feet) length and as wide as possible when the house is sited as close as possible to the road on the west side. However, with the front door on the ground floor, the driveway to the carport would slope upward. The carport should also provide the canopy over the front door.
House Design
Who created the design: By us based on the “Evolution139” by Bien-Zenker plus “grid extensions”. Exterior dimensions based on current calculation 9.41m + 11.92m (31 feet + 39 feet).
What do you particularly like? Why? Open living area: living room is open but without a direct line of sight to the kitchen, large children’s rooms
What do you dislike? Why?
- We are unsure about the best layout for the entrance area including wardrobe/guest toilet/pantry. Should the hallway’s access to the living area be aligned with the front door or the stairs?
- As currently planned in our heads, only the guest toilet and master bathroom are stacked vertically. Children’s bathroom and utility room are in different areas – will this work?
Price estimate from architect/planner: House with grid extensions including basement (not a living basement), turnkey (KfW 40+ or NH40 standard): €520,000
Personal budget limit for the house including equipment: €600,000
Preferred heating system: Air-to-water heat pump with underfloor heating.
If you had to give up, on which details or upgrades
-you could give up:
-you cannot give up: Light, open living-dining area
Why is the design the way it is now?
We have a “pre-contract with price guarantee” with Bien-Zenker. After being allocated a plot by the municipality, we chose a house from the “Evolution” series that fits the plot dimensions. The internal layout should be “freely changeable,” or we could possibly choose another house from this series. Staircase shape and position should also be adjustable.
The floor plan screenshots come from the catalog or a preliminary plan from the seller. The hand-drawn floor plans reflect our ideas for the layout and the plot arrangement. I haven’t added windows yet.
With our ideas/wishes (and hopefully input/tips from you) the next step is the architect. Our architect so far does not seem to want to be very creative – if we give him a finished plan, he will probably just use it?! Hence, beforehand we ask for your opinions.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
- Does the plot layout make sense? Are there better alternatives?
- Are the carport and driveway feasible (incline? space by front door?)
- Can the bathrooms be located as per the sketches?
- Is a living basement financially possible?
- How much space is needed for light wells in front of basement windows?
- Ideas for floor plan variations or obvious mistakes?
- Obvious cost-saving potential?
Thanks in advance and have a sunny day!
Roland
Edit: The development plan excerpts are oriented north on top, south at bottom.
H
hanghaus202317 Feb 2023 09:26The house fits quite well on the plot with the option proposed by @derdietmar. It’s important to clarify where the excess soil will be placed. I will check whether this is sufficient for leveling the site.
[USER=32750]@11ant, the original Bien-Zenker house shown in the first post is about 8 m (26 feet) wide. I’m also not sure why anyone would want to change that.
The original also has the ridge running perpendicular to the long side of the house, right?
[USER=32750]@11ant, the original Bien-Zenker house shown in the first post is about 8 m (26 feet) wide. I’m also not sure why anyone would want to change that.
The original also has the ridge running perpendicular to the long side of the house, right?
hanghaus2023 schrieb:
The house fits on the plot quite well with the option suggested by @derdietmar. Do you want to enclose the entire ground floor with masonry? It seems to me you are always forgetting the load transfer to the street.
K a t j a schrieb:
Do you mean you want to position the house perpendicular to the slope and make it so narrow that the incline within the building envelope is as small as possible? hanghaus2023 schrieb:
@11ant The original house from Bien-Zenker in the first post is about 8 m (26 feet) wide. I still don’t understand why anyone would want to change that. I mean—without wanting to rotate the house axis—that the original floor plan should either just be extended (in my opinion the more reasonable option) or, alternatively, a base model with the desired width should be chosen. Altering the gable width always compromises the original model’s structural design, meaning a custom plan is required and thereby largely negates the advantage of starting with a catalog model. Apart from serving as a price calculation tool, it’s then no longer really useful—and in my view, that is insufficient reason to accept the limitations of the catalog model. Regarding the parking space issue, I think it’s advisable not to widen the house. I would separate the driveway and the entrance. It’s not a cure-all, but often quite helpful. I’m happy to advise the original poster personally.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
U
Unnerfranggn17 Feb 2023 21:56Good evening and thank you all for your many constructive contributions 🙂
In any case, I gather that the "problems" and questions that concerned us most before this thread have to be at least partly set aside, and above all, the slope must be our main focus...
At least, I see that as a bigger problem than the fact that contracts have already been signed. What advice would you have given us, @K a t j a, if we were still "free"?
You really have a lot of ideas, and I’m impressed by what you come up with!
But now I’ll ask again, plainly and specifically, just so I can get it sorted out (sorry—as you can tell, I’m definitely not an expert...):
The intended solution with
- basement + windows facing north (possibly light wells), partially sunken on the south side
- ground floor with terrace facing south
- upper floor
- carport with a sloping driveway on the east and integration of the front door canopy
... mainly fails due to the narrowness of the carport, the excavations/supports needed to level the slope down to the ground floor on the south side, and also the height difference the driveway would have to overcome (I can guess this from the diagrams by @hanghaus2023)? Did I miss something?
... according to the illustrations by @K a t j a, the only type of stairs possible inside a carport might be a rope ladder...
Well, good advice is hard to find here.
@11ant, I need to revisit the structural issue with these grid extensions: does this mean that our cost estimate with extensions becomes structurally more complex (and more expensive) than a house originally designed with similar dimensions? The seller said regarding changes in size that in the end you only pay for the linear meters of wall you use—regardless of the house model. We once had a quote for another house with 11 x 11m (36 x 36 feet) dimensions, and it was similar in price (but it didn’t fit the plot).
By the way, the house length remains the same in our calculations. The “grid” extensions are simply added on the left and right (eave sides), while on the gable side the extension is partly “up” and partly “down”.
The definition of wall height in the development plan is also very interesting and ambiguous to us. Our architect said in the introductory meeting that for a corner plot you could “probably” choose the more favorable option for yourself. A call to the local council stated that the reference point for the wall height is at the corner where the two streets meet.
… quite a significant difference, in my opinion. I have requested written confirmation, which is still outstanding *shrugs* depending on the outcome, this could change the game...
A split-level design is certainly not a bad idea for the slope, but it is not very popular in our case. We would be happy if we could avoid it.
@hanghaus2023, thanks for the info about basement window drainage. At least that’s one piece of information that doesn’t just add more worries 🙂
@derdietmar, thank you for the interesting suggestion of a completely new layout. I think that way the slope would definitely be integrated nicely into the house, and the house would fit in better. We’ll certainly sketch that out as well... We had also thought that the west side might actually be more important, since the northern neighbor will definitely be “close dancing” with us. A long house far to the east is definitely worth considering here.
It would be really interesting to see the financial aspect of this—would something like that be handled through Bien-Zenker or would I need a capable/friendly/affordable excavator on hand?
I do understand “everything one level lower” because financial constraints, but…
Bien-Zenker has not proposed anything yet. The plan is that the seller *ahem* leads us to the architect (to whom we want to bring many ideas). The architect works with us, the design is sent to Bien-Zenker, who then tell us the costs and what’s even possible. We then adjust the plans back and forth, and in the end—tada—we have a house... Something like that—so far, apart from the seller, Bien-Zenker has not really been involved.
What if we accept losing some space at the stairwell near the front door, place the carport at the northeast corner of the plot at street level, and then have a wide stairway behind the carport going up the stepped terrain to the main entrance on the east side? While keeping the basement windows on the north side and otherwise (initially) keeping the same floor plan? This way, the carport could be wide enough, and it would be more flexible to set the house’s depth so the terrace on the south is at ground floor level.
Would a stairway to the front entrance solve problems? Or is having a terrace on the south side the bigger issue because of the adjacent slope?
Sorry if I’m missing something or asking questions twice—there are many issues and ideas at once for me as a layperson...
In any case, I gather that the "problems" and questions that concerned us most before this thread have to be at least partly set aside, and above all, the slope must be our main focus...
At least, I see that as a bigger problem than the fact that contracts have already been signed. What advice would you have given us, @K a t j a, if we were still "free"?
You really have a lot of ideas, and I’m impressed by what you come up with!
But now I’ll ask again, plainly and specifically, just so I can get it sorted out (sorry—as you can tell, I’m definitely not an expert...):
The intended solution with
- basement + windows facing north (possibly light wells), partially sunken on the south side
- ground floor with terrace facing south
- upper floor
- carport with a sloping driveway on the east and integration of the front door canopy
... mainly fails due to the narrowness of the carport, the excavations/supports needed to level the slope down to the ground floor on the south side, and also the height difference the driveway would have to overcome (I can guess this from the diagrams by @hanghaus2023)? Did I miss something?
... according to the illustrations by @K a t j a, the only type of stairs possible inside a carport might be a rope ladder...
Well, good advice is hard to find here.
@11ant, I need to revisit the structural issue with these grid extensions: does this mean that our cost estimate with extensions becomes structurally more complex (and more expensive) than a house originally designed with similar dimensions? The seller said regarding changes in size that in the end you only pay for the linear meters of wall you use—regardless of the house model. We once had a quote for another house with 11 x 11m (36 x 36 feet) dimensions, and it was similar in price (but it didn’t fit the plot).
By the way, the house length remains the same in our calculations. The “grid” extensions are simply added on the left and right (eave sides), while on the gable side the extension is partly “up” and partly “down”.
The definition of wall height in the development plan is also very interesting and ambiguous to us. Our architect said in the introductory meeting that for a corner plot you could “probably” choose the more favorable option for yourself. A call to the local council stated that the reference point for the wall height is at the corner where the two streets meet.
… quite a significant difference, in my opinion. I have requested written confirmation, which is still outstanding *shrugs* depending on the outcome, this could change the game...
A split-level design is certainly not a bad idea for the slope, but it is not very popular in our case. We would be happy if we could avoid it.
@hanghaus2023, thanks for the info about basement window drainage. At least that’s one piece of information that doesn’t just add more worries 🙂
@derdietmar, thank you for the interesting suggestion of a completely new layout. I think that way the slope would definitely be integrated nicely into the house, and the house would fit in better. We’ll certainly sketch that out as well... We had also thought that the west side might actually be more important, since the northern neighbor will definitely be “close dancing” with us. A long house far to the east is definitely worth considering here.
It would be really interesting to see the financial aspect of this—would something like that be handled through Bien-Zenker or would I need a capable/friendly/affordable excavator on hand?
ypg schrieb:I’m not sure I fully understood that idea. What do you mean by “follow the terrain”?
I also see that three floors might be tight financially.
So another thought: If you let the ground floor follow the terrain, basically making it like a basement, then on the west side the storage/utility room would be windowless, then a guest/office room with daylight through a light well. To the north, there would be windows on the east, north, and west sides, of whatever size, which would have to serve as living rooms.
On the upper floor then an open space etc. Then a finished attic. So basically everything shifted down one level.
What does Bien-Zenker suggest?…
I do understand “everything one level lower” because financial constraints, but…
Bien-Zenker has not proposed anything yet. The plan is that the seller *ahem* leads us to the architect (to whom we want to bring many ideas). The architect works with us, the design is sent to Bien-Zenker, who then tell us the costs and what’s even possible. We then adjust the plans back and forth, and in the end—tada—we have a house... Something like that—so far, apart from the seller, Bien-Zenker has not really been involved.
What if we accept losing some space at the stairwell near the front door, place the carport at the northeast corner of the plot at street level, and then have a wide stairway behind the carport going up the stepped terrain to the main entrance on the east side? While keeping the basement windows on the north side and otherwise (initially) keeping the same floor plan? This way, the carport could be wide enough, and it would be more flexible to set the house’s depth so the terrace on the south is at ground floor level.
Would a stairway to the front entrance solve problems? Or is having a terrace on the south side the bigger issue because of the adjacent slope?
Sorry if I’m missing something or asking questions twice—there are many issues and ideas at once for me as a layperson...
H
hanghaus202317 Feb 2023 22:34I am still working on finding the optimal location for the house and the levels.
Perhaps @K a t j a could integrate the utility room in the basement and place a parking space at street level along the eastern boundary of the property. Of course, I would then plan the staircase inside the house, not outside. I’ll see if I have time to look into this tomorrow.
How old are the children?
Perhaps @K a t j a could integrate the utility room in the basement and place a parking space at street level along the eastern boundary of the property. Of course, I would then plan the staircase inside the house, not outside. I’ll see if I have time to look into this tomorrow.
How old are the children?
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