ᐅ Architectural Design Phases 1-4 – Which Documents Are Required?
Created on: 20 May 2022 22:06
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prisma17
Hello,
we have signed an architect agreement with a planner for service phases 1-4. Now, due to various developments, we have decided not to proceed with the construction and want to cancel the planning contract. The planner has sent us an invoice, or rather just stated the amount he wants to charge for phases 1-4. The sum is around 12,000 + VAT.
We are now wondering which documents he should have at least produced – apart from a finalized dimensioned floor plan, a site layout on the plot, and the elevations of the house, we don’t have any other documents. We don’t know if he has already prepared others – we don’t want to rule it out – but he should be able to provide those to us. He verbally told us the construction costs would be around 300,000. We definitely went through several iterations of the floor plan and even changed the type of house. Still, in our view, not much has happened so far that would allow us to submit a building permit / planning permission application. Since the plot is still being developed, there are no surveys or similar reports yet.
What documents should he at least provide to us?
I want to clarify that we were aware from the beginning that planning involves significant costs, and we want to pay him fairly for the services provided—there is no question about that. However, during discussions, he hinted that he is now making us “pay dearly” because we are not going ahead with the build. He originally quoted us a significantly lower price for the four phases at the start. For now, we have decided to review his invoice carefully. At the moment, it is just the bare amount without any explanation or breakdown. If he can clearly justify this to us, we will consider it a learning experience.
Thanks in advance for your assessment!
we have signed an architect agreement with a planner for service phases 1-4. Now, due to various developments, we have decided not to proceed with the construction and want to cancel the planning contract. The planner has sent us an invoice, or rather just stated the amount he wants to charge for phases 1-4. The sum is around 12,000 + VAT.
We are now wondering which documents he should have at least produced – apart from a finalized dimensioned floor plan, a site layout on the plot, and the elevations of the house, we don’t have any other documents. We don’t know if he has already prepared others – we don’t want to rule it out – but he should be able to provide those to us. He verbally told us the construction costs would be around 300,000. We definitely went through several iterations of the floor plan and even changed the type of house. Still, in our view, not much has happened so far that would allow us to submit a building permit / planning permission application. Since the plot is still being developed, there are no surveys or similar reports yet.
What documents should he at least provide to us?
I want to clarify that we were aware from the beginning that planning involves significant costs, and we want to pay him fairly for the services provided—there is no question about that. However, during discussions, he hinted that he is now making us “pay dearly” because we are not going ahead with the build. He originally quoted us a significantly lower price for the four phases at the start. For now, we have decided to review his invoice carefully. At the moment, it is just the bare amount without any explanation or breakdown. If he can clearly justify this to us, we will consider it a learning experience.
Thanks in advance for your assessment!
SandraAnne schrieb:
We definitely need service phase 5. Just an approval stamp is not enough for us. But service phases 1-4 also have to be completed first.
So it’s not wrong to clarify the cost for service phases 1-5 as well. ... or also the price for service phases 3 to 5 from the architect who supported you up to the preliminary request (?) or something similar. We can take a closer look at what is actually required in your specific case. Perhaps you want to build with a general contractor, then it might be that only service phase 3 is needed ...
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
S
SandraAnne15 Jan 2023 18:1011ant schrieb:
... or perhaps the one responsible for design phases 3 to 5 of the architect who supported you up to the preliminary inquiry (?) or something similar. We can take a closer look at what is actually needed in your specific case. Maybe you plan to build with a general contractor, in which case only design phase 3 might still be required ...The price up to the end of design phase 5 with the architect contracted so far is significantly higher than other quotes. HOAI instead of a fixed price, after all.
We are actually not inclined to go with a general contractor.
SandraAnne schrieb:
The price up to the end of work phase 5 with the architect commissioned so far is significantly higher than other offers. HOAI instead of a fixed price, obviously. I would always ask an architect for three types of offers, namely
A. Work phases 1 and 2 with the option to add on B1. or B2.
B1. Work phases 3 to 5 with the option to extend to work phases 6 to 8
B2. Work phase 3
because whether you need work phase 4 depends on the further process (which is only decided during the resting phase).
In any case, the number of architects willing to enter into a contract is roughly halved when requesting an offer that includes work phase 5. You could almost say that work phase 5 acts as a small Gerddieter filter (and then module C as the big one).
SandraAnne schrieb:
We are actually not leaning towards a general contractor. I am also neither for nor against a general contractor (my "ideal approach" is always to prepare the tender so that a general contractor is not excluded). I just wanted to note: if a general contractor – especially a timber frame general contractor – then work phase 4 can be redundant and therefore obsolete.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
S
SandraAnne15 Jan 2023 18:5011ant schrieb:
You could say that work phase 5 is like the small Gerddieter filter (and module C then the large one). I’m afraid I don’t quite understand that sentence, as I’m not familiar enough with insider terms or expressions like Gerddieter. Could you briefly explain in one or two sentences what you mean?
Are you suggesting that work phase 5 is so complex or time-consuming that architects tend to avoid it?
SandraAnne schrieb:
Do you think that Design Phase 5 is so complicated or demanding that architects are reluctant to take it on?Yes, and the same applies to Design Phase 8. The reason architects - are reluctant to do Design Phase 5
is actually because it requires a real effort.
- prefer to offer Design Phases 1 through 4
because architects follow the market, which demands this kind of routine approval work more often than the "real, full" architectural design tasks. It should not be forgotten that software like SH3D, Roomsketcher, and others shape the client’s perception of the planner’s work, making the relatively large additional fee seem like a kind of “legal counsel fee” for obtaining the necessary stamps and approvals.
SandraAnne schrieb:
I don’t really understand that sentence because insider knowledge or “catchphrases” like Gerddieter are still unfamiliar to me.@Gerddieter is a member of this forum. You could say he has earned recognition as a sort of patron saint for criticism of incompetent architects. Essentially, and unfortunately all too often correctly, he advises maintaining a healthy skepticism towards this profession. Poor architects can cost clients a lot of money, and the very worst of them show no sense of shame about their damaging incompetence. This applies to “cost daydreamers” much more than to those who simply fail to listen properly to their clients’ tastes.For the typical first-time homebuilder, the warning-sign architects are unfortunately hardly distinguishable from the majority of good or even recommendable architects. That is why assisting clients in finding the right architect forms a larger part of my work than I would personally prefer. If it weren’t for the “if,” I would much rather accompany clients only through the joyful anticipation of their new home. I comfort myself with the thought that colleagues in expert witness roles see much more hardship.
SandraAnne schrieb:
Can you briefly summarize in one or two sentences what you mean?As my loyal readers know: no – short answers are not my strength ;-)https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
S
SandraAnne15 Jan 2023 22:49Thank you, now I understand better. Maybe also because your answer wasn’t that short after all ;-)
What exactly should we be wary of? A truly terrible floor plan because it’s completely convoluted? Or rooms that are very dark because the windows were planned incorrectly? Or a cost estimate that is way off? Things like that? What can really go wrong if you choose the wrong architect?
11ant schrieb:
For the typical first-time, one-off homeowner builder, unfortunately, the architects to be wary of are hardly distinguishable from the majority of good or even recommendable architects.
What exactly should we be wary of? A truly terrible floor plan because it’s completely convoluted? Or rooms that are very dark because the windows were planned incorrectly? Or a cost estimate that is way off? Things like that? What can really go wrong if you choose the wrong architect?
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