ᐅ Creating a Plan for Insulating an Old Building – How to Proceed?
Created on: 30 Aug 2022 10:30
T
Tobibi
Hello,
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
KarstenausNRW schrieb:
New? It has been on the market for almost seven years. Considering the development time, the product should now be mature.
And no, once a product is finished and approved, there are no major corrections anymore. Unless amateurs are involved.
Outside of the "information" presented here, all old and current brochures and details show significantly worse – more realistic – numbers.
Excuse me? Say that again. So the figures were manually inserted and haven’t even been confirmed or approved? Neither properly certified nor declared according to official standards? “Jean” is the authority who has to confirm the figures gathered by whoever? So amateurs really are at work. Have you ever launched something on the market? If not, then hush.
Wishing you a happy and blessed holiday season as well
B
Buschreiter24 Dec 2022 11:25I think we should all take a more relaxed approach. The key questions have been asked (today I sent a request by email for documents for my energy consultant), and if I don’t receive a satisfactory answer, I will have to look for alternative insulation. As I said: If something sounds too good to be true, it usually has some catches. So… happy holidays!
K
KarstenausNRW24 Dec 2022 11:35Buschreiter schrieb:
I think we should all be a bit more relaxed. The key questions have been asked (I sent a request by email today for documents for my energy consultant). If I don’t receive a satisfactory answer, I will have to look for alternative insulation. As I said: If something sounds too good to be true, it usually has some catches. So... happy holidays! I can gladly send them to you as well. I have all of them available.
The fact is that this is simply a heat-resistant paint rated up to 200°C (392°F).
The CE marking is fake because it does not include a certification number and therefore cannot be verified on the official EU online validation platform.
This means it is not legally allowed to be sold in Germany.
The company's stated values for thermal conductivity (WLG) do not comply with test conditions and, according to the company, are arbitrarily chosen and thus not comparable.
Anyone can see that the wall construction is complete nonsense and that such an exterior wall does not exist.
Verifiable values with official approval are available, for example, from Caparol.
Sorry @Adam2112, you clearly don’t understand what WLG, resulting U-value, or Sd-value for moisture protection mean.
Of course, you can keep dreaming about whatever you want... but a market launch first requires a verifiable CE marking.
As you yourself have recognized, the manufacturer’s non-comparable data are far from any standard and nothing more than marketing,
and the "certificates" are worth even less than your toilet paper — which, by the way, probably has a validatable CE mark 🙂
Have fun faking it... bye bye
[/B]
The CE marking is fake because it does not include a certification number and therefore cannot be verified on the official EU online validation platform.
This means it is not legally allowed to be sold in Germany.
The company's stated values for thermal conductivity (WLG) do not comply with test conditions and, according to the company, are arbitrarily chosen and thus not comparable.
Anyone can see that the wall construction is complete nonsense and that such an exterior wall does not exist.
Verifiable values with official approval are available, for example, from Caparol.
Sorry @Adam2112, you clearly don’t understand what WLG, resulting U-value, or Sd-value for moisture protection mean.
Of course, you can keep dreaming about whatever you want... but a market launch first requires a verifiable CE marking.
As you yourself have recognized, the manufacturer’s non-comparable data are far from any standard and nothing more than marketing,
and the "certificates" are worth even less than your toilet paper — which, by the way, probably has a validatable CE mark 🙂
Have fun faking it... bye bye
[/B]
K
KarstenausNRW24 Dec 2022 14:18Adam2112 schrieb:
Have you ever launched something on the market?Unfortunately, no product that, after a revolutionary development and even seven years after its market launch, still isn’t correct or needs to be adjusted and fixed. Or one where the product was sold for seven years with features that suddenly turned out to be entirely different. And also, no product that didn’t have proper documentation and certificates at the time of market launch.
K
karl.jonas26 Dec 2022 19:33I don’t believe the original poster either. But I am surprised by the CE discussion here. As far as I know (and at least the Wikipedia article seems to confirm this), CE marking is a manufacturer’s self-declaration and does not involve any external testing. The manufacturer confirms that their product complies with the relevant regulations—nothing more. That’s simply standard procedure. When @parcus mentions a (missing) four-digit number, that is optional, and to my knowledge there is no requirement to upload anything to a public register. It is sufficient to be able to present the (often self-prepared) test documents upon request. Any disagreements?