ᐅ Separate contracting for windows and roller shutters – the hardware manufacturer is blocking progress!
Created on: 16 Dec 2022 00:02
D
DominicHannoveD
DominicHannove16 Dec 2022 00:02We are building with a local general contractor (GC).
When signing the contract with the GC (it had to be done quickly on our side due to the bank’s requirements), we secured a contractual agreement allowing us to remove individual trades from the contract or add items without additional costs up until the building permit / planning permission submission.
Over the past few weeks, we have used this time to obtain comparative quotes.
The only trade we would like to remove are the overpriced electric aluminum roller shutters (9 units for almost €15,000). Since we cannot / are not allowed to remove them individually, we would have to cancel the entire package (windows, roller shutters, exterior doors, and exterior window sills).
The refund for this would be:
€16,600 base price for windows and doors
+ €2,650 (foil-coated windows)
+ €480 (mullion profiles)
+ €2,020 (side entrance door)
+ €8,660 (roller shutter installation)
+ €4,070 (electric roller shutter drives)
+ €2,580 (aluminum roller shutters)
= total reimbursement of €37,060
Based on the scaled plans, we obtained comparative offers and received a very good quote:
Price for everything around €34,000 (with the following added benefits compared to the GC’s offer:
- 14/14 roller shutters instead of 9/14 roller shutters,
- sliding lift-and-slide door instead of standard patio doors,
- app control for the roller shutters instead of no app control.
Everything else is included.
However, these would be Salamander windows (separate contract) instead of Rehau windows (GC). Since the U-value is at least equivalent and I can’t find anything negative about these windows, we don’t mind.
Now our problem:
Our GC, despite multiple requests, will not provide a detailed specification (bill of quantities) for the windows and also refuses to give us the exact dimensions.
Their explanation is that the GC sends the building permit / planning permission plans to the trades (window manufacturers), who then submit their quotes. All openings are dimensioned in these plans. The process wouldn’t be changed just for our request.
However, we must decide whether or not to award the window contract separately before the building permit / planning permission submission.
Is this procedure normal?
Another concern for us is that the GC says that we could potentially lose the construction time guarantee and fixed price guarantee if our own work causes delays in the construction schedule, which is somewhat understandable.
It’s now December, and construction is planned to start in March 2023 (the building permit / planning permission should presumably be submitted this year).
Is there definitely enough time for the window manufacturer to have the windows ready on time to avoid delays?
What are typical delivery times?
Does anyone have experience with this?
Small additional question:
We have a quote for a photovoltaic system. The supplier advises us to remove the photovoltaic preparation from the GC’s contract because it is very expensive at about €1,900. They recommend approaching the construction workers directly to see if they can install an empty conduit for a few euros. They also said that nowadays, new builds usually have an enlarged electrical panel / breaker box, or you should talk directly to the electrician if needed.
The photovoltaic supplier would, in any case, always find a way to get the cables into the utility room and connect the system.
What do you think?
I would appreciate any help!
When signing the contract with the GC (it had to be done quickly on our side due to the bank’s requirements), we secured a contractual agreement allowing us to remove individual trades from the contract or add items without additional costs up until the building permit / planning permission submission.
Over the past few weeks, we have used this time to obtain comparative quotes.
The only trade we would like to remove are the overpriced electric aluminum roller shutters (9 units for almost €15,000). Since we cannot / are not allowed to remove them individually, we would have to cancel the entire package (windows, roller shutters, exterior doors, and exterior window sills).
The refund for this would be:
€16,600 base price for windows and doors
+ €2,650 (foil-coated windows)
+ €480 (mullion profiles)
+ €2,020 (side entrance door)
+ €8,660 (roller shutter installation)
+ €4,070 (electric roller shutter drives)
+ €2,580 (aluminum roller shutters)
= total reimbursement of €37,060
Based on the scaled plans, we obtained comparative offers and received a very good quote:
Price for everything around €34,000 (with the following added benefits compared to the GC’s offer:
- 14/14 roller shutters instead of 9/14 roller shutters,
- sliding lift-and-slide door instead of standard patio doors,
- app control for the roller shutters instead of no app control.
Everything else is included.
However, these would be Salamander windows (separate contract) instead of Rehau windows (GC). Since the U-value is at least equivalent and I can’t find anything negative about these windows, we don’t mind.
Now our problem:
Our GC, despite multiple requests, will not provide a detailed specification (bill of quantities) for the windows and also refuses to give us the exact dimensions.
Their explanation is that the GC sends the building permit / planning permission plans to the trades (window manufacturers), who then submit their quotes. All openings are dimensioned in these plans. The process wouldn’t be changed just for our request.
However, we must decide whether or not to award the window contract separately before the building permit / planning permission submission.
Is this procedure normal?
Another concern for us is that the GC says that we could potentially lose the construction time guarantee and fixed price guarantee if our own work causes delays in the construction schedule, which is somewhat understandable.
It’s now December, and construction is planned to start in March 2023 (the building permit / planning permission should presumably be submitted this year).
Is there definitely enough time for the window manufacturer to have the windows ready on time to avoid delays?
What are typical delivery times?
Does anyone have experience with this?
Small additional question:
We have a quote for a photovoltaic system. The supplier advises us to remove the photovoltaic preparation from the GC’s contract because it is very expensive at about €1,900. They recommend approaching the construction workers directly to see if they can install an empty conduit for a few euros. They also said that nowadays, new builds usually have an enlarged electrical panel / breaker box, or you should talk directly to the electrician if needed.
The photovoltaic supplier would, in any case, always find a way to get the cables into the utility room and connect the system.
What do you think?
I would appreciate any help!
Anything you do without going through the general contractor (GC) gives them the opportunity to dispute issues in case of warranty claims or delays. And delays occur quickly, as your new window supplier must have the windows on site and time to install them, according to the GC’s construction schedule.
This is an aspect you definitely need to consider.
This is an aspect you definitely need to consider.
H
HilfeHilfe16 Dec 2022 06:29I would give the offer to the general contractor and ask for corrections. Anything else is just stress.
Wanting to build with Gu and then separate out individual, even large trades… that's exactly my sense of humor. Cherry-picking is just one of those things.
Do it like @HilfeHilfe says. Let him include the provider of your great offer in his own selection. Of course, there will then be a 10% surcharge for warranty, processing, and profit.
Do it like @HilfeHilfe says. Let him include the provider of your great offer in his own selection. Of course, there will then be a 10% surcharge for warranty, processing, and profit.
Windows are quite critical for the construction progress. From a certain point onward, no interior work can proceed without windows. Usually, windows are made to measure rather than strictly according to the building plans. Additionally, someone has to ensure airtightness for the blower door test (if KfW is involved). Then there’s the question of warranty coverage for any window damage caused by subsequent trades. Coordination with the electrician is necessary regarding switches, push buttons, and electrical connections.
What reasons did the general contractor (GC) give for their refusal? I tend to agree with them.
What reasons did the general contractor (GC) give for their refusal? I tend to agree with them.
Removing only the roller shutters is only possible if you use relatively unattractive external roller shutters. In new construction, this is usually done only to save a significant amount of money, which, given the costs mentioned above, can indeed be the case.
Box roller shutters form a unit with the windows, so the general contractor’s refusal to agree to separate this part of the trade is understandable.
If you want to separate the window trade to save a lot of money...
You should think it through carefully. All the problems and risks have been mentioned. I still recommend searching for the term “The forgotten connection” on major search engines and reading the related thread or article.
However, ordering after measurement only works if you have a lot of time and corresponding funds. I don’t know many construction sites, but even in my case, orders were placed based on plans. Especially nowadays, with lead times exceeding 8 weeks, it doesn’t seem feasible to do otherwise.
There should be approved working drawings or at least the design drawings clearly defined as such. The dimensions of the window and door openings must then be executed within standard tolerances. The general contractor must guarantee this to you; otherwise, you can forget about it.
I did it myself, but only because we installed the windows with my father-in-law (over 30 years of window installation experience) and were therefore confident everything was done properly. Even then, something went wrong.
Whether you should do this with an external company just because it is cheaper... I have no idea.
I can’t say anything about the brand, unfortunately (maybe @11ant knows more?). But basically, everyone is just using the same basic processes.
Box roller shutters form a unit with the windows, so the general contractor’s refusal to agree to separate this part of the trade is understandable.
If you want to separate the window trade to save a lot of money...
You should think it through carefully. All the problems and risks have been mentioned. I still recommend searching for the term “The forgotten connection” on major search engines and reading the related thread or article.
However, ordering after measurement only works if you have a lot of time and corresponding funds. I don’t know many construction sites, but even in my case, orders were placed based on plans. Especially nowadays, with lead times exceeding 8 weeks, it doesn’t seem feasible to do otherwise.
There should be approved working drawings or at least the design drawings clearly defined as such. The dimensions of the window and door openings must then be executed within standard tolerances. The general contractor must guarantee this to you; otherwise, you can forget about it.
I did it myself, but only because we installed the windows with my father-in-law (over 30 years of window installation experience) and were therefore confident everything was done properly. Even then, something went wrong.
Whether you should do this with an external company just because it is cheaper... I have no idea.
I can’t say anything about the brand, unfortunately (maybe @11ant knows more?). But basically, everyone is just using the same basic processes.
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