We are currently in the process of buying a former farmstead in Schleswig-Holstein (the notary is preparing the purchase contract) to combine living and working (self-employed with animals) under one roof. We, a family of four, will move in together with my mother-in-law on the property. The main residential part is basically ready to move in and is not a topic for discussion here. The part of the building previously used as a barn will be partially converted for my mother-in-law.
About 80m² (860 sq ft) will be used for the apartment, the section facing the courtyard is intended for my wife’s business use or as a guest WC for visitors to the farm. In the middle of the building, between the old residential unit and the barn, there is an unheated, continuous threshing floor. Access to the apartment can be via this area, which can also serve as a corridor for coats and shoes.
I sketched a draft for a possible layout, but somehow it doesn’t feel quite right. I have prepared a questionnaire, shortened for practical purposes:
Zoning Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: Building structure is fixed, listed building, the facade must not be significantly altered
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line and boundary: see above
Number of storeys: Conversion on the ground floor, upper floor is only a hayloft
Roof type: Gable roof
Architectural style: Desired – farmhouse / country house / built around 1880
Orientation: West and North
Other requirements: Facade is protected by historic preservation. Window and door openings are predetermined. In the center, there is a beam with two supporting pillars (circled in red on the floor plan). These cannot be moved. At the lower right is the old milk room. The walls between the milk room and the rest of the barn could be removed. The door shown at the lower left on the plan can be bricked up or equipped with a window / terrace door.
Client Requirements
Number of people, age: 1, newly retired, dog
Space needs on ground and upper floors: open-plan kitchen and living room, bedroom, utility room corner, bathroom
Office: family use
Guests per year: almost none, as there is an additional holiday apartment available
Open or closed layout: open plan
Traditional or modern construction style: traditional (not fully clear what is meant)
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, island optional
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/media wall: small media corner
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace and garden facing north and west, as shown in the pictures, 3D view shows 4 pm in summer
Garage, carport: separate, no need to consider
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: only terrace and secure dog run
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons for preferences or rejections
The outdoor area faces north and west, and towards the west there is the road as well as two large (listed) chestnut trees in the garden. My biggest concerns are 1. enough natural light entering the house and 2. some sunlight in the garden as well. For the latter, there is a shared backyard with a southern exposure.
Behind the western wall is the road, outside the built-up area but with little traffic. The wall has not yet been built, but according to the new state building code in Schleswig-Holstein, a height of 2m (6.5 ft) is allowed.
House Design
Who designed the plans:
- Do-it-Yourself
What do you like most? Why?
Low finishing effort, walls use existing posts.
What do you not like? Why?
I would like to keep the door at the lower left on the plan as a second exit open, but I haven’t found a space for a media / sofa area.
Price estimate by architect/planner: N/A
Personal price limit for the house including equipment:
Much will be done by ourselves: drywall, floor construction and insulation, electrical work up to the connection box.
Preferred heating system:
Most likely a multi-split air conditioning system (4 indoor units, 1 outdoor unit in the hayloft) and wall-mounted air-to-water heat pump, not connected to the existing central heating system of the house.
If you had to give up, which details/finishes could you skip:
- could skip: everything else is negotiable
- can’t skip: daylight bathroom, open kitchen and dining area
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.:
Requirements of the building structure, historic preservation, and client needs.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How can the living area be planned and divided efficiently without ending up with one big hall and inefficient space use?
Thanks in advance 🙂
About 80m² (860 sq ft) will be used for the apartment, the section facing the courtyard is intended for my wife’s business use or as a guest WC for visitors to the farm. In the middle of the building, between the old residential unit and the barn, there is an unheated, continuous threshing floor. Access to the apartment can be via this area, which can also serve as a corridor for coats and shoes.
I sketched a draft for a possible layout, but somehow it doesn’t feel quite right. I have prepared a questionnaire, shortened for practical purposes:
Zoning Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: Building structure is fixed, listed building, the facade must not be significantly altered
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line and boundary: see above
Number of storeys: Conversion on the ground floor, upper floor is only a hayloft
Roof type: Gable roof
Architectural style: Desired – farmhouse / country house / built around 1880
Orientation: West and North
Other requirements: Facade is protected by historic preservation. Window and door openings are predetermined. In the center, there is a beam with two supporting pillars (circled in red on the floor plan). These cannot be moved. At the lower right is the old milk room. The walls between the milk room and the rest of the barn could be removed. The door shown at the lower left on the plan can be bricked up or equipped with a window / terrace door.
Client Requirements
Number of people, age: 1, newly retired, dog
Space needs on ground and upper floors: open-plan kitchen and living room, bedroom, utility room corner, bathroom
Office: family use
Guests per year: almost none, as there is an additional holiday apartment available
Open or closed layout: open plan
Traditional or modern construction style: traditional (not fully clear what is meant)
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, island optional
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/media wall: small media corner
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace and garden facing north and west, as shown in the pictures, 3D view shows 4 pm in summer
Garage, carport: separate, no need to consider
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: only terrace and secure dog run
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons for preferences or rejections
The outdoor area faces north and west, and towards the west there is the road as well as two large (listed) chestnut trees in the garden. My biggest concerns are 1. enough natural light entering the house and 2. some sunlight in the garden as well. For the latter, there is a shared backyard with a southern exposure.
Behind the western wall is the road, outside the built-up area but with little traffic. The wall has not yet been built, but according to the new state building code in Schleswig-Holstein, a height of 2m (6.5 ft) is allowed.
House Design
Who designed the plans:
- Do-it-Yourself
What do you like most? Why?
Low finishing effort, walls use existing posts.
What do you not like? Why?
I would like to keep the door at the lower left on the plan as a second exit open, but I haven’t found a space for a media / sofa area.
Price estimate by architect/planner: N/A
Personal price limit for the house including equipment:
Much will be done by ourselves: drywall, floor construction and insulation, electrical work up to the connection box.
Preferred heating system:
Most likely a multi-split air conditioning system (4 indoor units, 1 outdoor unit in the hayloft) and wall-mounted air-to-water heat pump, not connected to the existing central heating system of the house.
If you had to give up, which details/finishes could you skip:
- could skip: everything else is negotiable
- can’t skip: daylight bathroom, open kitchen and dining area
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.:
Requirements of the building structure, historic preservation, and client needs.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How can the living area be planned and divided efficiently without ending up with one big hall and inefficient space use?
Thanks in advance 🙂
ypg schrieb:
What do you think, @dertill? Bathroom next to the bedroom, open-plan kitchen/living area, and living room separated, daylight bathroom, and even a small hallway so you don’t enter directly into the living room. Great design! The internal kitchen/workshop for my wife is, of course, a downside.
We need to discuss that calmly.
The only negative point is the laundry/utility room located directly in the line of sight from the entrance. It would be nicer if you could come in and have a direct view outside.
Myrna_Loy schrieb:
"I have never come across 'low conversion effort' when converting a stable into living space. It starts with excavation of the floor, often going below the foundation level and requiring safety measures, up to the desalination of the walls." Did I say it would be low effort? If so, no no no, that’s not what I meant. We know it will be quite a job. The stable was already "renovated" 15 years ago and has been used as a lightly used horse stable since then. The floor has already been renewed with a 10cm (4 inch) concrete slab. Of course, we need a structural engineer to check the ceilings again to see if everything is fine. Clearly, this won't be cheap, but it’s not the first house I’m working on, and everyone involved knows what they’re getting into.
Myrna_Loy schrieb:
I don’t know how undemanding your mother-in-law is or the size of her current home, but I would avoid the kitchen/guest WC combo in that spot and plan a properly designed apartment for her and her dog. Mother-in-law would prefer something smaller; she doesn’t want more than 80m2 (860 sq ft).
I was also unsatisfied with my first draft for the reasons you mentioned. That’s why this discussion is happening here.
dertill schrieb:
We need to discuss this calmly.What was the outcome of the discussion, Till?ypg schrieb:
What was the outcome of the discussion, Till?The design did not receive the hoped-for approval from either my wife or mother-in-law.
My mother-in-law was very skeptical about the elongated apartment layout, and my wife found the interior "kitchen" problematic or would prefer not to have it.
The future resident found your unsatisfactory floor plan suitable.
The current favorite is attached.
In the top right, there is a combination of a utility room and walk-in closet planned. In the recess, behind a cupboard door, the electrical distribution, water connection, and domestic hot water heat pump (DHW heat pump) are to be installed.
Sorry, you really have to want this. This dull living corner with a 2m (6.5 ft) distance from the TV right in the line of sight will never allow for a cozy atmosphere. In addition, the bathroom has no separation from the living area, and the bedroom can only be accessed through the utility room. In existing buildings, you often have to make compromises, and I agree with that. But here, I would keep exploring other options.
K a t j a schrieb:
Sorry, you really have to want that. This dull living corner with a 2m (6.5 feet) distance to the TV in the direct line of sight will never create a cozy atmosphere. Then there’s the bathroom without any separation from the living area, and the bedroom is accessed through the utility room. I agree that compromises often have to be made with existing buildings. But here, I would keep exploring options. I’m not happy with it either, but I don’t have to live there.
The hallway could easily be extended, and the bedroom entrance could be made directly from the hallway, even if that means having a wardrobe in the hallway.
The bathroom is behind the kitchen, of course directly adjacent to the living area, but at least you’re not sitting with your head against the partition wall.
Nothing is decided yet.
First, the heritage conservation office and then the building authority have to review the application for change of use. Before submitting the application, we still need to work it out with the architect—who will also add their expertise. This process is planned to start in spring, around Easter 2023, when we move in ourselves.
I was hoping someone might offer a different suggestion here to convince my mother-in-law and bring me some peace of mind.
But in the end, we will achieve a practical layout for about 80m² (860 square feet).
dertill schrieb:
We are currently in the process of purchasing a farmstead in Schleswig-Holstein. Part of the utility section, which has so far been used as a barn, is planned to be partially converted for my mother-in-law. Despite the different dimensions, my recommended reading is: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/mehrgenerationenhaus-baut-alte-scheune-um-200m2-auf-3-5-ha-grund.38055/
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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