ᐅ Controlled residential ventilation & heat pumps: Viessmann vs. Vaillant vs. Zehnder?
Created on: 23 Nov 2022 14:12
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Nixwill2Hello everyone,
I want to revisit a topic that was mentioned a while ago in another thread but deserves a more detailed discussion, as it turns out to be more complicated than anticipated. Here’s our situation, and I would really appreciate hearing about your experiences. Starting with the background.
We are currently building a prefabricated house (timber construction) with a prefab home manufacturer. The plot is located in a small village, in a very old part of town. It seems like almost everyone heats with wood there. On our property, there is a wood smoke smell throughout the entire winter (we noticed this last year already, and it’s happening again this year), as if there is a campfire burning nearby non-stop.
Now, we are seriously concerned that with a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery (MVHR), the indoor air could end up smelling the same as the outdoor air, which we definitely want to avoid. To counter this, we thought about installing a mechanical ventilation system with an activated carbon filter included. That’s why we have tentatively selected the Zehnder ComfoAir Q350 TR in the enthalpy version, since both of us already occasionally suffer from dry eyes. This system also comes from the factory with attachments for activated carbon filters.
Unfortunately, things turned out differently than expected. The house supplier is hesitant in initial discussions and is postponing the topic until the customization meeting in December. The reason given: they only work with Viessmann or Vaillant because the heat pumps come from those manufacturers. More precisely, it would be either the Viessmann Vitovent 300W or the Vaillant recoVair VAR360 ventilation system. Neither of these original systems offers a solution with an activated carbon filter.
Now to my main question. What’s your opinion on this? Our concern is not unfounded, and an F7 pollen filter doesn’t seem to be an adequate solution for this situation, does it? They immediately said that an F7 filter would be sufficient, but we don’t believe that.
Is it possible to install a Zehnder mechanical ventilation system alongside a heat pump from Viessmann or Vaillant, or not?
I don’t want to assume the worst-case scenario, but do you have any ideas on how to solve this problem if the house provider doesn’t allow any other mechanical ventilation system?
I would be very grateful for any ideas, experiences, or tips!
Best regards
xMisterDx schrieb:
Shouldn't you first check where the smell on your property is coming from and try to eliminate it? As WilderSueden already mentioned, we are located in a very old village center, right on the last piece of meadow, surrounded by very old houses (some of them beautiful old timber-framed houses). Here, it feels like almost everyone heats with a fireplace, and the base smell is quite strong—sometimes stronger, sometimes less so. That’s why, for now, the activated carbon filter is probably a must for us (and likely healthy as well).
Mycraft schrieb:
What kind of system will you get, and how large will the house be? Thank you very much for your inquiry! Could you give us a rough estimate?
Please tell me exactly what information you need. Square meters or cubic meters, only for the rooms that are heated, or also including the basement rooms that are just utility spaces and not heated (although there are some heated rooms there as well)? We are actually not clear yet about the ventilation areas, as nobody has discussed this with us so far—will the ventilation system also cover the utility basement?
At least, the offer includes a Viessmann Vitocal 200-A heat pump and a Viessmann Vitovent 300W controlled residential ventilation system. Vaillant is mentioned as an alternative, but I’m quite certain that Viessmann will be prioritized (at least from their side, since we still don’t really know how good these products are).
I would appreciate it if you (or anyone else, or collectively) could say something about the sizing, even roughly. So just write what you need, and I will be happy to calculate and provide the data…
X
xMisterDx26 Nov 2022 13:44I don’t understand the problem. Aren’t there activated carbon filters available for the Vitovent 300W?
Nixwill2 schrieb:
Square meters or cubic metersFor rooms that are to be ventilated or exhaust-ventilated by the system.Mycraft schrieb:
About rooms that are to be ventilated or exhaust-ventilated through the system. Do you need square meters or cubic meters?
xMisterDx schrieb:
I don’t understand the problem. There are activated carbon filters for the Vitovent 300W, aren’t there? I found only one website and was worried that if they stop offering it, that would be it… Also, I’m not sure if they are as effective as a separate filter box. Do you think so?
So, I have now added everything up and come to the following figures. The individual room sizes are approximate, but the total values for each floor are exact.
Ground Floor (GF): 87.06m² (937 sq ft) and 166.89m³ (5,891 cu ft)
Living area: ~24m² (258 sq ft)
Dining/Kitchen: ~32m² (344 sq ft) (open kitchen and the living room are connected without a door)
Pantry: ~3m² (32 sq ft)
Hallway with adjacent open wardrobe area: ~11m² (118 sq ft)
Guest room: ~13m² (140 sq ft)
Guest bathroom: ~5m² (54 sq ft)
Upper Floor (UF): 66.23m² (713 sq ft) and 166.89m³ (5,891 cu ft)
Bedroom: ~15m² (161 sq ft)
Dressing room: ~8m² (86 sq ft)
Bathroom: ~14m² (151 sq ft)
Child’s room: ~12m² (129 sq ft)
Gallery: ~16m² (172 sq ft)
Between the ground and upper floor is an open space measuring 3.2 x 2.4m (10.5 x 7.9 ft) that has not been included anywhere yet. It is located above the dining area on the ground floor and extends up to the gallery on the upper floor.
Basement (BL): 32.03m² (345 sq ft) and 73.67m³ (2,601 cu ft) (Cellars 1 and 2)
Heated cellar 1: ~27m² (291 sq ft)
Heated cellar 2: ~5m² (54 sq ft)
Unheated cellar 3: ~20m² (215 sq ft)
Unheated cellar 4: ~10m² (108 sq ft)
Unheated hobby room: ~6m² (65 sq ft)
Technical room: ~14m² (151 sq ft)
In the basement, we are not yet sure if ventilation will be installed. We would like it in cellars 1 and 2 since these areas can be heated if needed. For the hobby room and cellar 4, we will ask once the house is built whether heating can be added, but it is uncertain if this will be possible. If not, it’s not a big issue.
Can anyone here tell us if the heating and controlled mechanical ventilation system have been properly sized?
In which rooms would you place supply and exhaust vents? What surprises me is the number of vents specified in the contract – only 6 supply vents and 5 exhaust vents are listed. This seems quite low to us. Wouldn’t we need many more?
I would really appreciate any help!!!
Ground Floor (GF): 87.06m² (937 sq ft) and 166.89m³ (5,891 cu ft)
Living area: ~24m² (258 sq ft)
Dining/Kitchen: ~32m² (344 sq ft) (open kitchen and the living room are connected without a door)
Pantry: ~3m² (32 sq ft)
Hallway with adjacent open wardrobe area: ~11m² (118 sq ft)
Guest room: ~13m² (140 sq ft)
Guest bathroom: ~5m² (54 sq ft)
Upper Floor (UF): 66.23m² (713 sq ft) and 166.89m³ (5,891 cu ft)
Bedroom: ~15m² (161 sq ft)
Dressing room: ~8m² (86 sq ft)
Bathroom: ~14m² (151 sq ft)
Child’s room: ~12m² (129 sq ft)
Gallery: ~16m² (172 sq ft)
Between the ground and upper floor is an open space measuring 3.2 x 2.4m (10.5 x 7.9 ft) that has not been included anywhere yet. It is located above the dining area on the ground floor and extends up to the gallery on the upper floor.
Basement (BL): 32.03m² (345 sq ft) and 73.67m³ (2,601 cu ft) (Cellars 1 and 2)
Heated cellar 1: ~27m² (291 sq ft)
Heated cellar 2: ~5m² (54 sq ft)
Unheated cellar 3: ~20m² (215 sq ft)
Unheated cellar 4: ~10m² (108 sq ft)
Unheated hobby room: ~6m² (65 sq ft)
Technical room: ~14m² (151 sq ft)
In the basement, we are not yet sure if ventilation will be installed. We would like it in cellars 1 and 2 since these areas can be heated if needed. For the hobby room and cellar 4, we will ask once the house is built whether heating can be added, but it is uncertain if this will be possible. If not, it’s not a big issue.
Can anyone here tell us if the heating and controlled mechanical ventilation system have been properly sized?
In which rooms would you place supply and exhaust vents? What surprises me is the number of vents specified in the contract – only 6 supply vents and 5 exhaust vents are listed. This seems quite low to us. Wouldn’t we need many more?
I would really appreciate any help!!!
@Nixwill2
A rough estimate for assessment.
For simplicity, I used the ground floor, upper floor, and basement, totaling about 407m³ (14,380 ft³). For normal operation, I would aim for an air exchange rate of 0.6 to 0.7 times per hour, which is about 244m³/h to 284m³/h (144 to 167 CFM). For intensive use, 1 to 1.2 times air exchange, that is 407m³/h to 488m³/h (240 to 287 CFM). For moisture protection, around 0.4 times air exchange, approximately 163m³/h (96 CFM).
I think with a controlled residential ventilation system that can handle 500m³/h (294 CFM) and the planned filters, achieving a 1-time air exchange should be feasible.
The number of diffuser vents is basically determined by the number of rooms. Living and common areas receive supply air. Bathrooms, kitchen, and utility rooms have exhaust air.
The entire system should be designed so that the volume flow in the ventilation ducts/pipes is as low as possible.
As I said, just a rough calculation.
A rough estimate for assessment.
For simplicity, I used the ground floor, upper floor, and basement, totaling about 407m³ (14,380 ft³). For normal operation, I would aim for an air exchange rate of 0.6 to 0.7 times per hour, which is about 244m³/h to 284m³/h (144 to 167 CFM). For intensive use, 1 to 1.2 times air exchange, that is 407m³/h to 488m³/h (240 to 287 CFM). For moisture protection, around 0.4 times air exchange, approximately 163m³/h (96 CFM).
I think with a controlled residential ventilation system that can handle 500m³/h (294 CFM) and the planned filters, achieving a 1-time air exchange should be feasible.
The number of diffuser vents is basically determined by the number of rooms. Living and common areas receive supply air. Bathrooms, kitchen, and utility rooms have exhaust air.
The entire system should be designed so that the volume flow in the ventilation ducts/pipes is as low as possible.
As I said, just a rough calculation.
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