S
stuggidavid9 Mar 2014 13:40Hello dear forum,
We are currently planning the construction of our house. I have already read several posts and discussions here and would now like to address my question to you. Thank you in advance for your answers.
The situation is as follows:
Due to budget constraints, our house will unfortunately not have a basement. However, a photovoltaic system of about 6-7 kWp (kilowatt peak) is required by the development plan. We will probably aim for KfW 70 or KfW 55 standards. There are currently 3 people living in our household, possibly 4 in the future... we have not yet had the heating energy demand calculated. I understand that this is necessary for reliable advice regarding or against a specific heating system.
Nevertheless, I have a few questions that might be answered regardless of the heating energy demand.
Generally, it could be said that the photovoltaic system argues in favor of an air-to-water heat pump, since we would be able to run it partly or mostly with self-generated electricity, right?
We do have some concerns about the noise level of an air-to-water heat pump. We just cannot estimate how loud such a system actually is. My wife is very sensitive to noise and would be very unhappy if it were audible either in the living room adjacent to the utility room, in the bedroom/children’s room directly above, or in case of outdoor installation on our terrace.
Therefore, I would appreciate hearing experience reports from users of air-to-water heat pumps, both for indoor and outdoor installation.
To get to the main topic of my post: would it be possible to install an air-to-water heat pump outdoors inside the garage? This might possibly address the noise issue.
Best regards,
David
We are currently planning the construction of our house. I have already read several posts and discussions here and would now like to address my question to you. Thank you in advance for your answers.
The situation is as follows:
Due to budget constraints, our house will unfortunately not have a basement. However, a photovoltaic system of about 6-7 kWp (kilowatt peak) is required by the development plan. We will probably aim for KfW 70 or KfW 55 standards. There are currently 3 people living in our household, possibly 4 in the future... we have not yet had the heating energy demand calculated. I understand that this is necessary for reliable advice regarding or against a specific heating system.
Nevertheless, I have a few questions that might be answered regardless of the heating energy demand.
Generally, it could be said that the photovoltaic system argues in favor of an air-to-water heat pump, since we would be able to run it partly or mostly with self-generated electricity, right?
We do have some concerns about the noise level of an air-to-water heat pump. We just cannot estimate how loud such a system actually is. My wife is very sensitive to noise and would be very unhappy if it were audible either in the living room adjacent to the utility room, in the bedroom/children’s room directly above, or in case of outdoor installation on our terrace.
Therefore, I would appreciate hearing experience reports from users of air-to-water heat pumps, both for indoor and outdoor installation.
To get to the main topic of my post: would it be possible to install an air-to-water heat pump outdoors inside the garage? This might possibly address the noise issue.
Best regards,
David
So, the thing is audible... and depending on the size, not exactly quiet.
Do you have free garden space?
What would speak against a brine-to-water heat pump with ground loop installation (not drilling)?
For us, it cost about 6600 € including all excavation work...
...and the brine-to-water heat pump is much more efficient than the air-to-water heat pump!
Regards
Do you have free garden space?
What would speak against a brine-to-water heat pump with ground loop installation (not drilling)?
For us, it cost about 6600 € including all excavation work...
...and the brine-to-water heat pump is much more efficient than the air-to-water heat pump!
Regards
Air-to-water heat pumps circulate a significantly large volume of air every hour—many times the amount of air that would fit inside a garage. Therefore, air-to-water heat pumps absolutely require unrestricted access to outdoor air. Installing one inside a garage, even if it is ventilated with typical garage vents, will not work.
You will need to find a suitable location for installation and then consider the orientation of the air-to-water heat pump. A generously sized enclosure that allows enough space around all sides of the heat pump for adequate airflow can help reduce this issue.
You will need to find a suitable location for installation and then consider the orientation of the air-to-water heat pump. A generously sized enclosure that allows enough space around all sides of the heat pump for adequate airflow can help reduce this issue.
B
Bauexperte10 Mar 2014 11:27Hello David,
You should educate yourself on the topic – how does an air-to-water heat pump work? It requires hardly any electricity. If you consider building with the competitor in red, the situation looks different. However, they don’t install a conventional air-to-water heat pump but rather a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Below the Passive House standard, you will therefore need a lot of electricity, and using photovoltaic makes a lot of sense.
This issue regularly makes me break out in a sweat...
Good example: About 3 years ago, I sold a house near Cologne with an air-to-water heat pump; the outdoor unit was located less than 4.00 m (13 feet) from the terrace, in front of the attached masonry garage. One day after the outdoor unit was installed, our clients received a call from the neighbor saying the unit was too loud. The catch – it was only installed but not yet connected, which was planned for a week later....
Unfortunately, Germans tend to “hear” noise from a component the moment it *could* produce noise, regardless of whether it actually does or not. Due to this madness, I believe in the future there will only be enclosures as described by “klblb.”
No, “klblb” also explained the reasons for this very well.
Best regards, Bauexperte
stuggidavid schrieb:
In general, it can be said that the photovoltaic system supports the air-to-water heat pump, since we can operate it partially or mostly with the self-generated electricity, right?
You should educate yourself on the topic – how does an air-to-water heat pump work? It requires hardly any electricity. If you consider building with the competitor in red, the situation looks different. However, they don’t install a conventional air-to-water heat pump but rather a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Below the Passive House standard, you will therefore need a lot of electricity, and using photovoltaic makes a lot of sense.
stuggidavid schrieb:
We have some concerns about the noise of the air-to-water heat pump. We simply can’t estimate how loud such a heat pump is. My wife is very sensitive to this and would be very unhappy if it were audible either in the living room adjoining the utility room, the bedroom/kids’ room above, or if it were installed outside on our terrace.
This issue regularly makes me break out in a sweat...
Good example: About 3 years ago, I sold a house near Cologne with an air-to-water heat pump; the outdoor unit was located less than 4.00 m (13 feet) from the terrace, in front of the attached masonry garage. One day after the outdoor unit was installed, our clients received a call from the neighbor saying the unit was too loud. The catch – it was only installed but not yet connected, which was planned for a week later....
Unfortunately, Germans tend to “hear” noise from a component the moment it *could* produce noise, regardless of whether it actually does or not. Due to this madness, I believe in the future there will only be enclosures as described by “klblb.”
stuggidavid schrieb:
To get to the main point of my post: would it be possible to install an air-to-water heat pump outdoors inside the garage?
No, “klblb” also explained the reasons for this very well.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Hello,
The higher the heating and hot water demand and energy requirement, the more air is circulated!
Alternatively, a ground source heat pump with a narrow or slinky trench collector could be considered. This requires space, however. To properly size these sources, the actual heating and hot water demand (power, energy) must also be known.
An important factor is whether a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery is planned!
Best regards.
stuggidavid schrieb:Correct, this should always be the first step once the building envelope is defined.
... we have not yet had the heating energy demand calculated. I understand that this is necessary for reliable decisions for or against a heating system....
stuggidavid schrieb:Photovoltaics always support a heat pump. Moreover, with a heat pump combined with photovoltaics, cooling can essentially be done at zero cost.
...Generally, one could say that the photovoltaic system favors the air-to-water heat pump, since we can then operate it partially/mostly with self-produced electricity, right?..
stuggidavid schrieb:Completely silent is not possible; that should be clear. Basically, there are two sources of emissions: airborne noise (flow noise) and structure-borne noise (transmitted due to installation errors of indoor units or, in split systems, from the outdoor unit).
... or, in the case of outdoor installation on our terrace, it would be audible....
The higher the heating and hot water demand and energy requirement, the more air is circulated!
stuggidavid schrieb:These will be of limited use since every building project is unique!
... Therefore, I would appreciate user experiences from air-to-water heat pump owners, both with indoor and outdoor installations....
stuggidavid schrieb:You could install it there, but it would be completely pointless! Then you would need a unit designed for indoor installation, which unfortunately are not fully modulating. However, this would place the unit outside the thermal envelope. Whether the KfW certification would still be valid needs to be checked.
..., installing an air-to-water heat pump outdoors in the garage? This could potentially address the noise issue...
Alternatively, a ground source heat pump with a narrow or slinky trench collector could be considered. This requires space, however. To properly size these sources, the actual heating and hot water demand (power, energy) must also be known.
An important factor is whether a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery is planned!
Best regards.
Similar topics