Hello everyone,
My husband and I attended a home exhibition today featuring a local timber house builder (Schleswig-Holstein) and there we learned about the Vestaxx window heating system.
Is there anyone here who has experience with the Vestaxx window heating?
At first, it sounds unusual to have the heating integrated into the windows. For the triple-glazed windows, a nanotechnology-based, invisible layer is applied to the inner surface of the innermost pane, which warms the glass up to 40 degrees Celsius (104°F) via infrared and heats the room. The warmth actually felt very comfortable, and the windows were completely cold on the outside (today’s temperature was below 10 degrees Celsius (50°F)). Allegedly, the Vestaxx window heating transfers 92% of its heat to the room, and the Technical University of Berlin has tested this Vestaxx window heating system and rated it positively. It appears to have been on the market only recently.
Overall, I find this quite interesting. It is significantly cheaper than other heating systems, allows individual control of each room, and unlike underfloor heating, it is very responsive.
Of course, this only makes sense in a low-energy house (the timber builder mainly constructs 40+ standard homes), as the system runs on electricity. In that case, the Vestaxx window heating is said to consume very little power.
This is my impression from the expo; of course, they want to sell the system.
What are your experiences with Vestaxx? Have you heard of this system before? Could it be an alternative to conventional heating? Does it have a future?
My husband and I attended a home exhibition today featuring a local timber house builder (Schleswig-Holstein) and there we learned about the Vestaxx window heating system.
Is there anyone here who has experience with the Vestaxx window heating?
At first, it sounds unusual to have the heating integrated into the windows. For the triple-glazed windows, a nanotechnology-based, invisible layer is applied to the inner surface of the innermost pane, which warms the glass up to 40 degrees Celsius (104°F) via infrared and heats the room. The warmth actually felt very comfortable, and the windows were completely cold on the outside (today’s temperature was below 10 degrees Celsius (50°F)). Allegedly, the Vestaxx window heating transfers 92% of its heat to the room, and the Technical University of Berlin has tested this Vestaxx window heating system and rated it positively. It appears to have been on the market only recently.
Overall, I find this quite interesting. It is significantly cheaper than other heating systems, allows individual control of each room, and unlike underfloor heating, it is very responsive.
Of course, this only makes sense in a low-energy house (the timber builder mainly constructs 40+ standard homes), as the system runs on electricity. In that case, the Vestaxx window heating is said to consume very little power.
This is my impression from the expo; of course, they want to sell the system.
What are your experiences with Vestaxx? Have you heard of this system before? Could it be an alternative to conventional heating? Does it have a future?
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
because it does not include photovoltaic and household electricity, so the comparison cannot work. This is demonstrably incorrect. It includes photovoltaics either on both sides or on neither, and you don’t like that because then your statement about the greater cost-effectiveness of your product can be disproven. I have already asked if you claim that household electricity consumption is different with the Vestaxx heating system. If so, why would that be?
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
my customers. They understand me But apparently you don’t understand what we are trying to tell you here. We are not saying that you are selling a bad product. As several people have already mentioned above, it makes sense for a very specific target customer (which in my opinion has not yet been fully described) within a narrow niche.
However, we are saying that your current sales argument presented here is weak because it is objectively refutable.
You believe in your product, which is good. But think again, independent of the facts, whether it is sensible as a sales strategy to speak poorly of and attack a competitor’s product, or whether it would be much better to identify the optimal use case for your product and then look at which type of customers would especially benefit from it.
I suggest that further qualitative and quantitative customer research is needed here. If you don’t have the expertise for that (which is perfectly normal), there are consulting agencies available for that purpose.
V
Vestaxx GmbH11 Oct 2022 12:00Baranej schrieb:
Oh wow, I quickly read a few posts and I wouldn’t want to use this system alone because of the negative impression created by the writing style, etc. How can someone present themselves so unfavorably in public discussions... Strange once again – here only my reactions are being scrutinized, while the other posts were all quite factual – I find that very interesting. 😉
But okay – I want to expressly apologize for reacting too emotionally in some posts to what I believe were deliberately false statements. I got drawn into discussions that quickly lost their respectful and factual level. That’s an experience I’ve learned from here.
I bet none of my “opponents” will apologize for their words. 😉
I have posted here publicly using my real name and have had to face anonymous writers whose interests remain hidden. I am staying active because I want to continue supporting those who need practical experience and advice.
Quite objectively – with balanced emotion and references to scientific findings.
Have a great day and stay relaxed ;o)
R
RotorMotor11 Oct 2022 12:12Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
As already mentioned -> The discussion with RotorMotor leads nowhereNowhere or just not to your goal? I am still happy to consider concrete suggestions for changes (including reasons).
I scrolled through again and so far, I could only find this:
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
... because it does not include photovoltaics and household electricity, so the comparison cannot work. End of discussion!Actually, photovoltaics were included, as was household electricity during the relevant period, but I will gladly highlight it for you again in red:150m² (1615 sq ft) with 40kWh/m²a -> 6000kWh/a (6000 kWh/year) heating energy demand
10kWp photovoltaic system + 5kWh battery storage -> approximately 15kWh/day in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. With 10kWh for household electricity including hot water, 5kWh/day remain for heating
The cost of the photovoltaic system is not listed here because the system finances itself through feed-in tariffs and savings on household electricity.
Hot water costs are excluded, since both systems provide it with a seasonal performance factor (SPF/JAZ) of 4 and therefore make no difference; electricity for hot water is included in the household electricity calculation.
Electricity purchase price 35¢/kWh
Feed-in tariff price: 8.2¢/kWh
Interest rate 3.5% (current rate for 10-year fixed term)
Electricity price increase 6% (average of the last 20 years)
Vestaxx + Photovoltaics:
Additional cost over standard windows: €10,000
Purchase and installation of ground water heat pump: €5,000
Interest on purchase over 18 years: €5,239
Maintenance ground water heat pump: €200/year
4 months * 30 days * 5 kWh/day = 600 kWh from photovoltaic electricity
Remaining 5400 kWh to be purchased
Total costs (average, due to rising electricity prices) 5400 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €3,691/year
After 18 years this amounts to: €90,286
Heat pump + Photovoltaics:
Hydraulics: 80€/m² * 150m² = €12,000
Purchase and installation of air-to-water monobloc heat pump: €20,000
Interest on purchase over 18 years: €11,176
Maintenance air-to-water heat pump: €250/year
Electricity demand: 6000 / 4 = 1500 kWh
Remaining 900 kWh to be purchased
Total costs (average, due to rising electricity prices) 900 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €656/year
After 18 years this amounts to: €59,488
Vestaxx without photovoltaics:
Additional cost over standard windows: €10,000
Purchase and installation of ground water heat pump: €5,000
Interest on purchase over 18 years: €5,239
Maintenance ground water heat pump: €200/year
Total costs (average, due to rising electricity prices) 6000 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €3,691/year
After 18 years this amounts to: €94,558
Heat pump without photovoltaics:
Hydraulics: 80€/m² * 150m² = €12,000
Purchase and installation of air-to-water monobloc heat pump: €20,000
Interest on purchase over 18 years: €11,176
Maintenance air-to-water heat pump: €250/year
Electricity demand: 6000 / 4 = 1500 kWh
Total costs (average, due to rising electricity prices) 1500 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 = €1,011/year
After 18 years this amounts to: €65,878
This example results in additional costs for Vestaxx of €30,798 compared to the heat pump.
So for 18 years, you pay €142 more per month without having the underfloor heating system left at the end of the term!
All that money is gone to the energy supplier and has mostly been converted into CO2.
V
Vestaxx GmbH11 Oct 2022 12:17RotorMotor schrieb:
Not reaching any target or just not your target?
I am still happy to assist with concrete suggestions for changes (including explanations).
I scrolled through again and so far I could only find this:
Yes, the photovoltaics were already included, as was household electricity during the relevant period, but I will gladly highlight it again in red for you:
150m² (1615 sq ft) with 40kWh/m²a -> 6000kWh/a heating energy demand
10kWp photovoltaic system + 5kWh storage -> ~15kWh/day in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. With 10kWh used for household electricity including hot water, 5kWh/day remain for heating
The costs for the photovoltaic system are not listed in this example because the system pays for itself through feed-in tariffs and savings on household electricity.
I am excluding hot water costs here, as both systems provide it with a seasonal performance factor (SPF) of 4, so there is no difference; the electricity for hot water is included in the household electricity calculation.
Electricity purchase price 35ct/kWh
Feed-in tariff price: 8.2ct/kWh
Interest rate 3.5% (current rate for 10-year fixed term)
Electricity price increase 6% (average of the last 20 years)
Vestaxx + Photovoltaics:
Additional cost compared to standard windows: €10,000
Purchase and installation of the BWWP (building-integrated heat pump): €5,000
Interest over 18 years for purchase: €5,239
Maintenance BWWP: €200/year
4 months * 30 days * 5kWh/day = 600kWh from photovoltaic electricity
Remaining 5,400kWh purchased electricity
Total (average, due to rising electricity prices) 5400 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €3,691/year
After 18 years, this amounts to: €90,286
Heat pump + Photovoltaics:
Hydraulics: €80/m² * 150m² = €12,000
Purchase and installation of air-to-water monoblock heat pump: €20,000
Interest over 18 years for purchase: €11,176
Maintenance air-to-water heat pump: €250/year
Electricity demand: 6000 / 4 = 1500kWh
Remaining 900kWh purchased electricity
Total (average, due to rising electricity prices) 900 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €656/year
After 18 years, this amounts to: €59,488
Vestaxx without Photovoltaics:
Additional cost compared to standard windows: €10,000
Purchase and installation of BWWP: €5,000
Interest over 18 years for purchase: €5,239
Maintenance BWWP: €200/year
Total (average, due to rising electricity prices) 6000 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 + 600 * 8.2 = €3,691/year
After 18 years, this amounts to: €94,558
Heat pump without Photovoltaics:
Hydraulics: €80/m² * 150m² = €12,000
Purchase and installation of air-to-water monoblock heat pump: €20,000
Interest over 18 years for purchase: €11,176
Maintenance air-to-water heat pump: €250/year
Electricity demand: 6000 / 4 = 1500kWh
Total (average, due to rising electricity prices) 1500 * (35 + 35 * 1.06^18) / 2 = €1,011/year
After 18 years, this amounts to: €65,878
This example results in additional costs for Vestaxx of €30,798 compared to the heat pump.
So, for 18 years, every month you pay €142 more per month without even ending up owning the underfloor heating system at the end of the term!
All the money is gone to the energy supplier and mostly converted into CO2 emissions. Now a storage system is introduced and static yield values are used (see red).
Again, with the same goal of not making the total cost overview transparent.
Suddenly, only running text and no more tables.
The discussion leads nowhere – therefore, I am ending it from my side now.
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