Hello everyone,
My husband and I attended a home exhibition today featuring a local timber house builder (Schleswig-Holstein) and there we learned about the Vestaxx window heating system.
Is there anyone here who has experience with the Vestaxx window heating?
At first, it sounds unusual to have the heating integrated into the windows. For the triple-glazed windows, a nanotechnology-based, invisible layer is applied to the inner surface of the innermost pane, which warms the glass up to 40 degrees Celsius (104°F) via infrared and heats the room. The warmth actually felt very comfortable, and the windows were completely cold on the outside (today’s temperature was below 10 degrees Celsius (50°F)). Allegedly, the Vestaxx window heating transfers 92% of its heat to the room, and the Technical University of Berlin has tested this Vestaxx window heating system and rated it positively. It appears to have been on the market only recently.
Overall, I find this quite interesting. It is significantly cheaper than other heating systems, allows individual control of each room, and unlike underfloor heating, it is very responsive.
Of course, this only makes sense in a low-energy house (the timber builder mainly constructs 40+ standard homes), as the system runs on electricity. In that case, the Vestaxx window heating is said to consume very little power.
This is my impression from the expo; of course, they want to sell the system.
What are your experiences with Vestaxx? Have you heard of this system before? Could it be an alternative to conventional heating? Does it have a future?
My husband and I attended a home exhibition today featuring a local timber house builder (Schleswig-Holstein) and there we learned about the Vestaxx window heating system.
Is there anyone here who has experience with the Vestaxx window heating?
At first, it sounds unusual to have the heating integrated into the windows. For the triple-glazed windows, a nanotechnology-based, invisible layer is applied to the inner surface of the innermost pane, which warms the glass up to 40 degrees Celsius (104°F) via infrared and heats the room. The warmth actually felt very comfortable, and the windows were completely cold on the outside (today’s temperature was below 10 degrees Celsius (50°F)). Allegedly, the Vestaxx window heating transfers 92% of its heat to the room, and the Technical University of Berlin has tested this Vestaxx window heating system and rated it positively. It appears to have been on the market only recently.
Overall, I find this quite interesting. It is significantly cheaper than other heating systems, allows individual control of each room, and unlike underfloor heating, it is very responsive.
Of course, this only makes sense in a low-energy house (the timber builder mainly constructs 40+ standard homes), as the system runs on electricity. In that case, the Vestaxx window heating is said to consume very little power.
This is my impression from the expo; of course, they want to sell the system.
What are your experiences with Vestaxx? Have you heard of this system before? Could it be an alternative to conventional heating? Does it have a future?
V
Vestaxx GmbH5 Oct 2022 10:46RotorMotor schrieb:
I would really be interested in seeing some numbers regarding this claim!
So a few pipes in the screed require more energy to produce than manufacturing heated glass windows plus four times the consumption over their lifetime!
Interesting... CO2 footprint: I’ve already answered this before, but here it is again -> 1m² (10.8 sq ft) of heated glass requires 3 grams of zinc oxide, which is directly sputtered onto the glass during the float process. Additionally, 2 grams of silver conductive adhesive and 2 meters (6.6 ft) of tinned copper tape are needed. An average house needs about 15 m² (161 sq ft). You can do the math yourself.
Now regarding hydronic systems. Underfloor heating -> 2–3 kilometers (1.2–1.9 miles) of copper or plastic tubing, a distribution station with valves, and then the entire heat pump or pellet stove (you should be able to imagine that yourself). Our CO2 footprint estimate is about a factor of 10,000 higher. And the CO2 footprint has nothing to do with later energy consumption. You could factor that in, but then I would come back with my 15 kWp photovoltaic system and show you how much CO2-neutral energy is generated from the sun during its lifetime. Own goal again!
V
Vestaxx GmbH5 Oct 2022 11:08WilderSueden schrieb:
But now the system is being marketed in an overly complicated way. Every heat pump already has a built-in electric backup heater to cover peak loads. The additional installation effort is zero, nada, nothing.
For a window heating system, you first have to run connections to every window. Since you probably don’t want surface-mounted installations in your living room, you have to open up the walls in an older building. That alone makes window heating impractical in existing buildings. On top of that, there’s the extra cost compared to regular windows and the need to control two heating systems. The heat pump’s electric heater automatically adjusts according to the outside temperature. Sorry, but I really can’t see any advantage for existing buildings here. The system duplicates an existing setup and causes extra effort and costs.
We actually market (mainly) for new buildings, but I get several calls or emails every day from customers wanting to do something in their older homes. I also advise them against our heating system unless they insulate the building envelope beforehand (which usually includes the windows). I still want to look myself in the mirror in the morning. People hope that simply replacing the windows with heated glass is the solution. Unfortunately, it’s not. And customers have often already asked about the cost of a heat pump. Then prices of €80,000 (about 80,000 €) for a heat pump with underfloor heating from “reputable” heating contractors reach the customer. That will never pay off.
If the system has a justification at all, it is only in new construction where the energy demand is low and additional wiring is not a major effort. But it is still not clear to me what the decisive advantage is compared to a regular infrared heater. By the way, infrared panels emit 100% of the energy into the building, and if a panel breaks, I can just buy a new one at the hardware store and replace it myself. With window heating, you can only hope that the supplier still exists in 20 years. And when the windows are due for replacement, the window heating goes along with them. The advantage over regular infrared heaters is that we operate at a nominal glass temperature of 43 degrees Celsius (about 110°F) → top comfort class. Infrared panels operate in the range of 60 to 120 degrees Celsius (140 to 248°F). You or your child could burn your fingers, and you can’t stay close for very long because it becomes uncomfortable (compare outdoor infrared heaters). In addition, no wall space is used up. Then there’s perhaps the CO₂ footprint—but that is already reasonable with those systems.
If a glass panel really breaks, a window installer comes with a new pane (so you don’t have to go anywhere) and is gone within 15 minutes. That’s how quickly a glass replacement can be done.
And then there’s always the concern: What if we’re not around in 20 years? In Europe, there are 10 other manufacturers making heated glass. I’d be more worried about whether replacement parts will still be available for my heat pump in 20 years and how much they’ll cost.
And when the windows are due for replacement again… in about 20 to 30 years 😉 … you simply buy new frames and swap the glass panes. That’s called sustainability 😉
V
Vestaxx GmbH5 Oct 2022 11:09Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
I am new here and don’t know how to display a user’s reply the way you do. Maybe someone can give me a tip. THANK YOU... I’ve figured that out by now – only how to display individual text passages is still unclear to me.R
RotorMotor5 Oct 2022 11:10It’s a pity, I really hoped there would be something concrete by now, but I’m slowly losing interest. Unfortunately, there are only long texts without real answers, and when things get precise, it’s in completely the wrong areas. The topic was CO2 balances, and you only talk about amounts of zinc oxide...
W
WilderSueden5 Oct 2022 11:31Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
The advantage compared to standard infrared heaters is that we operate with a nominal heating glass temperature of 43 degrees Celsius (109°F) -> best comfort class. IR panels work in the range of 60 to 120 degrees Celsius (140 to 248°F). You or your child could burn your fingers and it’s uncomfortable to be nearby for long (compare to patio heaters). Also, no wall surface is taken up. Wall space is not an issue for me since the units are small and there are versions with attractive pictures, so you don’t even notice there’s a heater. I can’t comment on the heat, but surely there are models with adjustable temperature, and if you mount them higher, kids can’t reach them. Adults can use common sense anyway.
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
If a glass panel ever breaks, a window installer will come with a new glass (so you don’t have to go anywhere) and be done in 15 minutes. That’s how fast a glass replacement is. Does the window installer Maier from Hintertupfingen know the system and handle that? Does he have heating glass in stock or even know where to order it?
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
And when the windows need to be replaced again … in about 20 to 30 years 😉... you just buy the frames and swap in new glass – that’s called sustainability 😉 And what would the window fitter charge for such a replacement? Sustainability is nice, but swapping glass doesn’t necessarily sound cheaper than buying completely new windows. And who knows if in 30 years we won’t be using quadruple glazing, then replacing the glass might not be that straightforward anymore.
Vestaxx GmbH schrieb:
I would be more concerned whether spare parts for my heat pump will even be available in 20 years and what they will cost. Given how many are being installed now, that probably won’t be a problem. And thanks to the water-based system, the energy source doesn’t matter at all. Whether oil, gas, wood, heat pump, hydrogen, local/district heating, or an electric boiler… all can be swapped without changing the rest of the heating system.
V
Vestaxx GmbH5 Oct 2022 11:31That’s funny – you don’t provide any specific information yourself, and when I even give concrete numbers in grams per square meter, it’s still not enough for you.
Common sense should allow people to see the comparison immediately, even without CO2 footprints. Now I’m losing the interest to respond to your comments. If you’re so knowledgeable, why don’t you publish the CO2 footprint of heat pumps? I couldn’t find anything online.
But please be specific, just as you expect from others. We are at 3 kg CO2 per m² (square meter) of heating layer. Concrete enough???
And sorry – I’m always happy to learn more, so please excuse the somewhat clumsy handling of the threads.
Common sense should allow people to see the comparison immediately, even without CO2 footprints. Now I’m losing the interest to respond to your comments. If you’re so knowledgeable, why don’t you publish the CO2 footprint of heat pumps? I couldn’t find anything online.
But please be specific, just as you expect from others. We are at 3 kg CO2 per m² (square meter) of heating layer. Concrete enough???
And sorry – I’m always happy to learn more, so please excuse the somewhat clumsy handling of the threads.
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