Hello everyone,
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
Refilling the cistern with fresh water, for example using a float switch or sensors.
Of course, it can also be done completely manually.
When it makes sense to refill depends on the size of the cistern, the withdrawal amount per hour, and so on.
So never fill it completely with fresh water. You want to leave space for rainwater when it comes.
Of course, it can also be done completely manually.
When it makes sense to refill depends on the size of the cistern, the withdrawal amount per hour, and so on.
So never fill it completely with fresh water. You want to leave space for rainwater when it comes.
H
Hausbaufaehig12 Sep 2022 17:18Hello everyone,
I hope you don’t mind me joining this thread, as I’m currently facing the same issue as the original poster.
We want to set up an automatic irrigation system using 24V solenoid valves, including the control unit (either via KNX or Hunter, as mentioned here). These are planned to be installed inside the garden shed and possibly also in the garage. Since the garage and garden shed are located at opposite ends of the property, having only one manifold would require running pipes underneath the house. Both the garden shed and the garage will have their own sub-distribution systems and water supply from a rainwater tank.
Now my questions:
What advice can you give me? As for the garden itself, almost nothing has been planned yet, but the slabs will be poured in the next few weeks and I don’t want to "block" any options here.
Good luck,
Hausbaufaehig
I hope you don’t mind me joining this thread, as I’m currently facing the same issue as the original poster.
We want to set up an automatic irrigation system using 24V solenoid valves, including the control unit (either via KNX or Hunter, as mentioned here). These are planned to be installed inside the garden shed and possibly also in the garage. Since the garage and garden shed are located at opposite ends of the property, having only one manifold would require running pipes underneath the house. Both the garden shed and the garage will have their own sub-distribution systems and water supply from a rainwater tank.
Now my questions:
- If the valves are installed indoors, you would of course need penetrations in the concrete slab (or exterior wall?) for all the water pipes. Depending on the number of irrigation zones, that could become quite extensive. I have a hard time picturing this, as I mostly find reports/guides regarding valve boxes buried outdoors. Could installing the valves indoors be a bad idea?
- Would it be more practical to bury one valve box in the north and another in the south and run the control cables there?
What advice can you give me? As for the garden itself, almost nothing has been planned yet, but the slabs will be poured in the next few weeks and I don’t want to "block" any options here.
Good luck,
Hausbaufaehig
M
Marvinius12 Sep 2022 21:24Hausbaufaehig schrieb:
Hello everyone,
I’ll take the liberty of joining this thread since I am currently facing the same issue as the original poster.
We plan to install an automatic irrigation system using 24V solenoid valves, which will include the controller (either KNX or Hunter, as mentioned here). These will be installed in the garden shed and possibly also in the garage. The garage and garden shed are located at opposite ends of the property, so with only one control unit, the pipes would need to run under the house.
Both the garden shed and garage will have their own sub-distribution panels and (cistern) water supply anyway.
Now my questions:
- If the valves are installed indoors, you will obviously need openings in the base slab (or exterior wall?) for all the water pipes. Depending on the number of irrigation zones, this might add up to quite a lot. I can’t quite picture it; I only find guides or reports about valve boxes buried outside. Could installing the valves indoors be a bad idea?
- Would it be more practical to install a valve box buried outside at the north and south ends and run the control cables there?
What do you recommend? Almost nothing is planned yet for the garden itself, but the concrete slabs will be poured in the next few weeks, and I want to avoid closing off any options.
Best of luck,
Hausbaufaehig Wow, garden irrigation can be more complicated than it seems. I simply laid the Gardena pipeline from the two water outlets to the corners of the property, ending in water outlets. From there, it goes to automatic water distributors feeding various zones with drip hoses, oscillating sprinklers, drip systems, and pop-up sprinklers. Everything is controlled by irrigation timers at the water outlets. The watering starts at 6:00 am and runs until 8:00 am across all zones. Done! The irrigation has been sufficient for our eucalyptus tree to grow to almost 5 meters (16 feet) in height in 5 years 🙂
Gardena is not the first choice for a permanently installed automatic irrigation system. The price-performance ratio is poor, and the durability is also not optimal.
The Gardena pipeline is the worst and most expensive option. It simply uses PE-HD pipe (drinking water pipe).
I have even seen Gardena pipelines chewed through...
Gardena is well known and available in home improvement stores.
@Hausbaufaehig
Where does your water come from? Freshwater supply, rainwater tank, or well? If directly from the water mains, have a larger water meter installed right away to ensure sufficient pressure and flow.
Why control via KNX? I use it myself, but there is basically only one real reason to choose it: you have so much flow and pressure that you can run multiple zones in parallel, thus saving runtime.
In terms of logic and ease of use, you probably won’t get close to something like a Hunter Hydrawise.
If I understand correctly, you will have a rainwater tank. So install a good/strong pump in the tank and feed from there to the sub-distributions.
The rainwater tank will need refill (freshwater supply).
Sub-distributions should be as close as possible to the zones. This saves on piping. Also, use as large pipes as possible up to the distributors to avoid unnecessary pressure and flow loss.
Since your outdoor area is not yet planned or finished, you cannot plan in detail yet. You don’t even know how many zones you will need (this also depends on pressure, flow, and sprinkler heads). Prepare the rainwater tank refill and power supply for the rainwater pump. How do you plan to monitor the fill level? Automatic refill?
Where will the control unit go? You will need power there as well as empty conduits for the control cables.
A sub-distribution in the garage or garden shed is possible if it is close to the zones. Otherwise, it’s not practical. If a valve leaks, you will have water in the garage or garden shed (do you have floor drains there?)...
Better use proven valve boxes. Then you don't have to route water from the rainwater tank first into the garage/garden shed and then back out.
Since you don’t even have a slab yet, I would lay a large cable duct with pulling aid underneath for control cables, power (garden outlets and lighting), possibly LAN, and one or two PE-HD pipes (DN40).
In the slab, include an additional multi-channel conduit for refill, power supply, possibly control cables, possibly LAN...
You recognized early that it is still easy to prepare everything now. The detailed planning for the number of valves, which sprinklers, drip lines, etc., will come later.
The Gardena pipeline is the worst and most expensive option. It simply uses PE-HD pipe (drinking water pipe).
I have even seen Gardena pipelines chewed through...
Gardena is well known and available in home improvement stores.
@Hausbaufaehig
Where does your water come from? Freshwater supply, rainwater tank, or well? If directly from the water mains, have a larger water meter installed right away to ensure sufficient pressure and flow.
Why control via KNX? I use it myself, but there is basically only one real reason to choose it: you have so much flow and pressure that you can run multiple zones in parallel, thus saving runtime.
In terms of logic and ease of use, you probably won’t get close to something like a Hunter Hydrawise.
If I understand correctly, you will have a rainwater tank. So install a good/strong pump in the tank and feed from there to the sub-distributions.
The rainwater tank will need refill (freshwater supply).
Sub-distributions should be as close as possible to the zones. This saves on piping. Also, use as large pipes as possible up to the distributors to avoid unnecessary pressure and flow loss.
Since your outdoor area is not yet planned or finished, you cannot plan in detail yet. You don’t even know how many zones you will need (this also depends on pressure, flow, and sprinkler heads). Prepare the rainwater tank refill and power supply for the rainwater pump. How do you plan to monitor the fill level? Automatic refill?
Where will the control unit go? You will need power there as well as empty conduits for the control cables.
A sub-distribution in the garage or garden shed is possible if it is close to the zones. Otherwise, it’s not practical. If a valve leaks, you will have water in the garage or garden shed (do you have floor drains there?)...
Better use proven valve boxes. Then you don't have to route water from the rainwater tank first into the garage/garden shed and then back out.
Since you don’t even have a slab yet, I would lay a large cable duct with pulling aid underneath for control cables, power (garden outlets and lighting), possibly LAN, and one or two PE-HD pipes (DN40).
In the slab, include an additional multi-channel conduit for refill, power supply, possibly control cables, possibly LAN...
You recognized early that it is still easy to prepare everything now. The detailed planning for the number of valves, which sprinklers, drip lines, etc., will come later.
H
Hausbaufaehig13 Sep 2022 09:16Hello rick2018, thank you very much for the detailed answers, they really help me a lot!
We will have a cistern with a submersible (pressure) pump and automatic refilling using a solenoid valve and float switch. Would a KNX connection for monitoring the fill level make sense here, or is that just unnecessary?
I still need to check with the plumbing professional about the pump’s pressure/flow rate, as it’s not clearly specified in the offer yet. Can the pump be too strong, or is it better to have extra capacity?
Currently, no water is planned in the garage, so as you suggested, it’s probably not a good place for distribution valves.
I attached a rough layout plan of the garden house (GH), technical room, and garage to help visualize this better. (The plan at the top is approximately north.)
The property is very long and narrow; the house essentially divides it into two areas. To the north, the garden/pool house would be well positioned to cover the entire garden area. There is probably less planting in the south, but I would still find irrigation useful there. Therefore, the idea of an additional distribution in the technical room or garage—to avoid running water or control lines too far. Does this mean two Hydrawise controllers, then? Urgh...
The technical room already has a floor drain with a backflow preventer, but as mentioned, the garage does not.
Thanks, that sounds good!
rick2018 schrieb:Sorry for the sparse information, the post was initially meant as a short cry for help.
Where does your water come from? Freshwater supply, cistern, or well? If directly from the water mains, have a larger water meter installed right away to ensure sufficient pressure and flow rate. [..]
We will have a cistern with a submersible (pressure) pump and automatic refilling using a solenoid valve and float switch. Would a KNX connection for monitoring the fill level make sense here, or is that just unnecessary?
rick2018 schrieb:Yes, I had almost thought the same; a separate control system is probably preferable. I still need to read up on the above-mentioned Hydrawise in more detail. With the 24V solenoid valves, I should be on the safe side and could possibly switch to another system quickly, right?
Why control via KNX? I have it myself but there is usually only one real reason to use it: You have enough flow and pressure to run several circuits in parallel, saving operating time. In terms of logic and usability, you probably won't get close to something like Hunter Hydrawise.
I still need to check with the plumbing professional about the pump’s pressure/flow rate, as it’s not clearly specified in the offer yet. Can the pump be too strong, or is it better to have extra capacity?
rick2018 schrieb:Would you recommend DN40 (diameter nominal 40) for the pipe size mentioned below? For example, is 1 inch too small for piping going to the distribution manifolds?
Sub-distributions should be located as close as possible to the circuits. This saves on piping. Also, you use the largest possible pipe size up to the distributors to avoid unnecessary pressure and flow loss.
rick2018 schrieb:We are planning a garden/pool house, which will have an electrical sub-distribution, fresh and wastewater connections, and KNX. I also planned to install the solenoid valves and control units (Hydrawise/KNX actuators) inside there. Thanks for the hint about floor drains—I will definitely keep that in mind (if the pool builder hasn’t already insisted on it).
Where will the control be installed? You will need power and empty conduits for control cables.
Installing a sub-distribution in the garage or garden house is possible if it’s close to the circuits. Otherwise, it’s not practical. If a valve leaks, you’ll have water in the garage or garden house (do you have floor drains there?)...
Currently, no water is planned in the garage, so as you suggested, it’s probably not a good place for distribution valves.
I attached a rough layout plan of the garden house (GH), technical room, and garage to help visualize this better. (The plan at the top is approximately north.)
The property is very long and narrow; the house essentially divides it into two areas. To the north, the garden/pool house would be well positioned to cover the entire garden area. There is probably less planting in the south, but I would still find irrigation useful there. Therefore, the idea of an additional distribution in the technical room or garage—to avoid running water or control lines too far. Does this mean two Hydrawise controllers, then? Urgh...
The technical room already has a floor drain with a backflow preventer, but as mentioned, the garage does not.
rick2018 schrieb:Maybe not a bad idea... What about the control cables and surge protection? Does it help to bury the box as close as possible to the garden house/technical room?
Better to use proven valve boxes. Then you don’t have to run piping from the cistern into the garage/garden house and back out again.
rick2018 schrieb:
Since you don’t even have a foundation slab yet, I would install a large Kabelschutzflex conduit with pulling aid underneath for control cables, power (garden outlets and lighting), possibly LAN, and one or two PE-HD pipes (DN40).
In the foundation slab, create an additional multi-channel duct for refilling, power, possibly control cables, and possibly LAN...
Thanks, that sounds good!