ᐅ House Floor Plan with a Separate Apartment – Suggestions for Improvement?
Created on: 31 Aug 2022 12:31
M
MarlenP
Hello everyone,
we plan to build a house with two residential units on a 472m2 (5,079 sq ft) plot of land (Unit 1: 143.39m2 (1,543 sq ft) / Unit 2: 69.57m2 (749 sq ft)).
The second unit is intended for my parents, while the main unit is for my family, which includes my spouse and three children (ages 7, 13, and 17).
Since our plot is relatively small, we want to build a compact house to maximize the garden space.
We are currently in the final planning stage and would appreciate your feedback on our project.
We have a feeling that we might have overlooked some important aspects or not paid enough attention to certain details because our planning focus was mainly on the compactness of the house.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 472m2 (5,079 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundary
Perimeter development: south and east
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: hipped roof
Architectural style:
Orientation: south/west
Maximum heights / limits: 10m (33 ft)
Additional requirements
Client Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: urban villa
Basement, number of storeys: no basement
Number of occupants and ages: Unit 1 – 5 people (ages 43, 38, 17, 13, 7); Unit 2 – 2 people, both over 60
Space needs on ground floor / upper floor:
Office: family use or home office? -
Number of guest stays per year: 2-3 times per year
Open or closed layout: open
Traditional or modern build style: modern
Open kitchen, with or without island: open kitchen, no island
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony or roof terrace: no
Garage or carport: garage
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes / special features / daily routines, also reasons why certain features are included or excluded
The house should be compact but still feel spacious.
House Design
Planning by:
- planner from a construction company
- architect: by the architect
- do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why? It is a relatively small house with two residential units.
What do you dislike? Why? Maybe some rooms (children’s rooms and the rooms in the secondary unit) are too small?
Price estimate according to architect/planner: approx. 600,000€
Personal budget limit for house including fittings: 650,000€
Preferred heating system: district heating
If you had to give up something, which details or expansions
- could you do without: basically nothing – we have already minimized everything.
- could you not do without: the planned number of rooms
Why did the design end up like it is? For example:
Standard design from the planner?
Which wishes were implemented by the architect? Yes
A mix of many examples from various magazines…
What makes it particularly good or bad in your opinion?
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
We wanted the house to be as compact as possible. Maybe we focused too much on compactness and neglected other important aspects.
What do you like about the house, what do you not like so much, and what would be unacceptable?
we plan to build a house with two residential units on a 472m2 (5,079 sq ft) plot of land (Unit 1: 143.39m2 (1,543 sq ft) / Unit 2: 69.57m2 (749 sq ft)).
The second unit is intended for my parents, while the main unit is for my family, which includes my spouse and three children (ages 7, 13, and 17).
Since our plot is relatively small, we want to build a compact house to maximize the garden space.
We are currently in the final planning stage and would appreciate your feedback on our project.
We have a feeling that we might have overlooked some important aspects or not paid enough attention to certain details because our planning focus was mainly on the compactness of the house.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 472m2 (5,079 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundary
Perimeter development: south and east
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: hipped roof
Architectural style:
Orientation: south/west
Maximum heights / limits: 10m (33 ft)
Additional requirements
Client Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: urban villa
Basement, number of storeys: no basement
Number of occupants and ages: Unit 1 – 5 people (ages 43, 38, 17, 13, 7); Unit 2 – 2 people, both over 60
Space needs on ground floor / upper floor:
Office: family use or home office? -
Number of guest stays per year: 2-3 times per year
Open or closed layout: open
Traditional or modern build style: modern
Open kitchen, with or without island: open kitchen, no island
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony or roof terrace: no
Garage or carport: garage
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes / special features / daily routines, also reasons why certain features are included or excluded
The house should be compact but still feel spacious.
House Design
Planning by:
- planner from a construction company
- architect: by the architect
- do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why? It is a relatively small house with two residential units.
What do you dislike? Why? Maybe some rooms (children’s rooms and the rooms in the secondary unit) are too small?
Price estimate according to architect/planner: approx. 600,000€
Personal budget limit for house including fittings: 650,000€
Preferred heating system: district heating
If you had to give up something, which details or expansions
- could you do without: basically nothing – we have already minimized everything.
- could you not do without: the planned number of rooms
Why did the design end up like it is? For example:
Standard design from the planner?
Which wishes were implemented by the architect? Yes
A mix of many examples from various magazines…
What makes it particularly good or bad in your opinion?
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
We wanted the house to be as compact as possible. Maybe we focused too much on compactness and neglected other important aspects.
What do you like about the house, what do you not like so much, and what would be unacceptable?
hanse987 schrieb:
How many parking spaces are required according to your development plan or parking regulations? You need to show at least that many in your building permit / planning permission application. Fortunately, only 2 parking spaces for both housing units are required.
We are also over 70, but I would never move into such a tiny apartment, especially not with my relatives unless I needed care and my child was willing to look after me. The son visiting as a student is only temporary, but the place will become really crowded. EVERYONE living in the house will have to make compromises. I suspect this is about money, with the parents helping to finance the house, which might otherwise be unaffordable.
This tiny bathroom for five people is an absolute morning nightmare. And the third bathroom cannot be used by the family in the mornings even though it is only used occasionally. Madness. A "Jack and Jill" bathroom would be ideal.
And exactly what someone said about a bigger garden. My daughter and her family did housesitting for friends. It was a sort of trial living experience for what they will have starting in October, including a property with 4000m2 (43,000 sq ft). Their boys are 6 and 8.5 years old, and contrary to expectations, the boys showed no interest at all in the garden because of its size. There were old trees on the huge lawn area. Their previous garden was much smaller and was always enough. What she learned is that the size of the area itself is uninteresting for children and that there is nothing more boring than mainly looking at a grass area with some taller plants around it.
This tiny bathroom for five people is an absolute morning nightmare. And the third bathroom cannot be used by the family in the mornings even though it is only used occasionally. Madness. A "Jack and Jill" bathroom would be ideal.
And exactly what someone said about a bigger garden. My daughter and her family did housesitting for friends. It was a sort of trial living experience for what they will have starting in October, including a property with 4000m2 (43,000 sq ft). Their boys are 6 and 8.5 years old, and contrary to expectations, the boys showed no interest at all in the garden because of its size. There were old trees on the huge lawn area. Their previous garden was much smaller and was always enough. What she learned is that the size of the area itself is uninteresting for children and that there is nothing more boring than mainly looking at a grass area with some taller plants around it.
The two adults only use the garden for relaxing, grilling, and parties.
What purpose do three bathrooms serve for you? None of them are accessible, and none are suitable for people with physical limitations. A bathtub can be very helpful when you are older or recovering from illness or injury due to pain relief. Two people have two bathrooms each, and you, as five people, only have one?
Neither of the two apartments offers enough space for a proper dining area. Try drawing real furniture to scale, including clearance space for movement.
There are five of you, and the grandparents will probably often join at the table, so that makes 8 people. The recommendation is 50–70 cm (20–28 inches) width per place setting. Your table should therefore be 1.8–2 meters (6–6.5 feet) long and 90–100 cm (35–39 inches) wide. Adding clearance space (at least 80 cm / 31 inches between the table edge and the wall) means you need a width of 250–260 cm (8.2–8.5 feet) and a length of 340–360 cm (11–12 feet). With only 260 cm (8.5 feet) width, this will not work, because on one side the groceries need to be brought into the kitchen, and on the other side there must be access to the terrace.
The kitchen in the secondary apartment is only suitable for making coffee. Also, that tiny table fits maybe three plates with cutlery, but no coffee pot.
What purpose do three bathrooms serve for you? None of them are accessible, and none are suitable for people with physical limitations. A bathtub can be very helpful when you are older or recovering from illness or injury due to pain relief. Two people have two bathrooms each, and you, as five people, only have one?
Neither of the two apartments offers enough space for a proper dining area. Try drawing real furniture to scale, including clearance space for movement.
There are five of you, and the grandparents will probably often join at the table, so that makes 8 people. The recommendation is 50–70 cm (20–28 inches) width per place setting. Your table should therefore be 1.8–2 meters (6–6.5 feet) long and 90–100 cm (35–39 inches) wide. Adding clearance space (at least 80 cm / 31 inches between the table edge and the wall) means you need a width of 250–260 cm (8.2–8.5 feet) and a length of 340–360 cm (11–12 feet). With only 260 cm (8.5 feet) width, this will not work, because on one side the groceries need to be brought into the kitchen, and on the other side there must be access to the terrace.
The kitchen in the secondary apartment is only suitable for making coffee. Also, that tiny table fits maybe three plates with cutlery, but no coffee pot.
@MarlenP
I understand your disappointment right now, but just think how much worse it will be once the building is there and no one feels comfortable. We would also be happy to look into alternatives with you, but for that, we need the exact plot dimensions.
And where are they located? Are they allowed to be arranged one behind the other? That's usually rejected. Whether your questionable architect can get approval for this garage as a double parking space—I have no idea. But realistically, I only see one parking spot.
In my opinion, your focus on compactness and the garden here is misguided. You should rather concentrate on ensuring that each unit has a comfortable terrace. Maybe a small flower bed as well, but then space becomes tight. The time for sandboxes and similar things for the kids is over anyway. It’s much more important that they have somewhere to store their bicycles.
We can also keep critiquing the design, but what’s the point? Do you really want to put a dining table only 2.6m (8.5 ft) wide? Try doing that and then pull all the chairs back and sit down. It’s annoyingly tight, especially since there are five of you! Or do you want to despairingly place it in front of the living room door? Then people walk in and trip over it, but you’ll have a gap in front of the kitchen. It’s all just nonsense.
I strongly recommend you pull the plug before you sink money into this. Once it’s built, the money is lost, and if you want to sell, you’ll only get well below price for something like this.
I understand your disappointment right now, but just think how much worse it will be once the building is there and no one feels comfortable. We would also be happy to look into alternatives with you, but for that, we need the exact plot dimensions.
MarlenP schrieb:
Fortunately, only 2 parking spaces for both residential units.
And where are they located? Are they allowed to be arranged one behind the other? That's usually rejected. Whether your questionable architect can get approval for this garage as a double parking space—I have no idea. But realistically, I only see one parking spot.
In my opinion, your focus on compactness and the garden here is misguided. You should rather concentrate on ensuring that each unit has a comfortable terrace. Maybe a small flower bed as well, but then space becomes tight. The time for sandboxes and similar things for the kids is over anyway. It’s much more important that they have somewhere to store their bicycles.
We can also keep critiquing the design, but what’s the point? Do you really want to put a dining table only 2.6m (8.5 ft) wide? Try doing that and then pull all the chairs back and sit down. It’s annoyingly tight, especially since there are five of you! Or do you want to despairingly place it in front of the living room door? Then people walk in and trip over it, but you’ll have a gap in front of the kitchen. It’s all just nonsense.
I strongly recommend you pull the plug before you sink money into this. Once it’s built, the money is lost, and if you want to sell, you’ll only get well below price for something like this.
11ant schrieb:
By the way, your issue is not new; see here with @Claudia-W: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-2-familienhaus-mit-staffelgeschoss-zu-kompakt.42256/page-3#post-549893 – and also Yvonne’s suggestion I don’t need to compare the designs in detail to know that the former @Claudia-W is our current MarlenP.
I find some statements misleading:
MarlenP schrieb:
We are currently in the final planning phase MarlenP schrieb:
As mentioned, we have already received the building permit / planning permission. Regarding the parking spaces:
MarlenP schrieb:
2 parking spaces will probably not be sufficient. However, we can park additional cars on the north side of the house. MarlenP schrieb:
That doesn’t sound good :-( Regarding the garage – only one car will be parked there. The remaining space will be used for bicycles, garden tools, etc. MarlenP schrieb:
The architect did not include these because the building authority might object. On the north side, I only see an informal spot… of course, the architect didn’t show it because it will likely be officially unauthorized.
MarlenP schrieb:
2nd residential unit (both over 60) MarlenP schrieb:
We thought that two seniors, almost 70 years old, wouldn’t need much more space. “Over 60” means 60 years or a year or two older. Almost 70 means 69 years… At that age, significant physical decline occurs, and one has to recognize that activities for people over 60, even at home, are different from those approaching 70.
MarlenP schrieb:
My parents will mostly stay on the ground floor. The stairs and the room upstairs in the secondary apartment are planned as a guest room, since my parents often have visitors. Claudia-W schrieb:
My parents need quite a bit of space because they regularly get visits from their children and grandchildren (they live close to the new building area). MarlenP schrieb:
My parents’ youngest son (my brother 🙂) studies further away and often comes home. Sometimes he stays with my parents for several days or weeks. Then there’s a contradiction again:
MarlenP schrieb:
We thought that two seniors, almost 70 years old, wouldn’t need much more space. Claudia-W schrieb:
My parents need quite a bit of space because they regularly get visits from their children and grandchildren (they live close to the new building area). What do the seniors themselves say about the whole plan? Are they even asked if the space is sufficient?
For example, I see a 3-meter (10 feet) kitchen with a small dining table as more realistic than a kitchenette, which would not even be adequate on vacation.
MarlenP schrieb:
Regarding the criticism of our floor plan: To be honest, I’m very disappointed that after months of planning with our architect, we apparently did not achieve the optimum. Maybe you should look for the problem with yourselves? The initial discussions about the floor plan took place at the beginning of the year. Then:
Claudia-W schrieb:
We are reasonably satisfied that we have more than one option for later. If you only plan for options or later use, most people here drop out of the discussion. But you also didn’t continue the discussion. However, I found the approach from January better than now…
MarlenP schrieb:
Most of the criticism was aimed at the secondary apartment’s floor plan, but what about the main apartment’s layout? No, for example, I wrote that you should try to furnish the layout with realistic furniture. I don’t see any real planning in the ground floor part of your house section; it looks like a rough and unconsidered semi-detached sketch. For me, it’s barely more than a draft and is insufficient and unfair for a family of five. The January approach was better.
MarlenP schrieb:
To give him peace and quiet, away from us and the parents, we planned the room upstairs with a shower bathroom. Here we have a student of any age who doesn’t really fit into a senior-friendly apartment. The question for me is where he will actually live. It reads like he is still officially registered at his parents’ address and not just visiting.
How old is he? 23 or 32? So can we say that three people will move into the seniors’ apartment, one of whom is occasionally away studying?
MarlenP schrieb:
The bathroom is sufficiently large for us. We currently have a bathtub, which neither the children nor we have used for years. That’s why we left it out. Size is not determined by the presence of a bathtub. What was not mentioned is the location of the bathroom above the planned living room…
haydee schrieb:
The 2-person unit has 2 of those (baths) and you five have one? This already shows the inadequacy: a guest/son gets his own bathroom, while five people share almost the same-sized one.
Regarding compactness: You have to stay compact, as the plot size limits the options. If you and your children mostly use the garage and expect noise and activity there daily—mowing the lawn, vehicle fleet of the children, commuting by car, visitors from friends, etc.—then I would suggest that the secondary apartment for the seniors should rather be located facing the play street. Playing children often stimulate happiness hormones in older people more than clanging metal and grumpy, arguing early risers. You could expand toward the east and south. In between, you could place the utility room with the guest section (student plus shower-WC), which the current 17-year-old might later use or other visitors (grandchildren were mentioned somewhere as well).
Maybe I’m completely wrong in thinking that switching the layout of the two residential units would be better.
You are already bound by the floor area ratio, which means that a significantly larger building is not possible.
I also see a lot of potential for optimization in the floor plan. The guest room with its own bathroom—is that intended for your brother? Could he access it through your main staircase? And when he’s not there, couldn’t you simply use the room and bathroom yourselves?
Where is the technical room? I only see a utility room for the basement apartment downstairs. When living in such a tiny basement apartment, I don’t think it makes sense to also have a guest room with its own bathroom. Any visitor should understand and stay at a hotel or sleep on the sofa in the living room. Another question: Do your parents always sleep together? Even if one of them is sick?
Where is the technical room? I only see a utility room for the basement apartment downstairs. When living in such a tiny basement apartment, I don’t think it makes sense to also have a guest room with its own bathroom. Any visitor should understand and stay at a hotel or sleep on the sofa in the living room. Another question: Do your parents always sleep together? Even if one of them is sick?
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