Hello, I’m not sure if this is the right place, but I’ll give it a try:
We fell in love with a house, and everything seems fine except for one thing.
The heating/hot water system is entirely gas-based (gas instant water heater).
The house was built in 1886 and was fully renovated in 2001 according to the building energy act (the heating system is about the same age). A few key points:
- Radiators installed only in the bathroom and partially in the living room, which also has underfloor heating
- No basement
- Very small utility room, about 4 sqm (43 sq ft), approximately 1.14 m (3.7 ft) wide and 4.08 m (13.4 ft) long
- Low ceiling height (approximately 2.15 m (7 ft) downstairs and 1.96–1.98 m (6.4–6.5 ft) upstairs)
Now we are considering alternative options, so here are my questions (think of them as brainstorming for ideas):
- An energy consultant suggested solar thermal, but it seems the storage tank might not fit in the utility room?
- Would an air-source heat pump work with just radiators?
- What other solutions might be possible? There is no fireplace either. I don’t have much experience, so I’m a bit stuck.
I hope this information is helpful. I’m just looking for some ideas, not a complete solution.
Thanks!!
We fell in love with a house, and everything seems fine except for one thing.
The heating/hot water system is entirely gas-based (gas instant water heater).
The house was built in 1886 and was fully renovated in 2001 according to the building energy act (the heating system is about the same age). A few key points:
- Radiators installed only in the bathroom and partially in the living room, which also has underfloor heating
- No basement
- Very small utility room, about 4 sqm (43 sq ft), approximately 1.14 m (3.7 ft) wide and 4.08 m (13.4 ft) long
- Low ceiling height (approximately 2.15 m (7 ft) downstairs and 1.96–1.98 m (6.4–6.5 ft) upstairs)
Now we are considering alternative options, so here are my questions (think of them as brainstorming for ideas):
- An energy consultant suggested solar thermal, but it seems the storage tank might not fit in the utility room?
- Would an air-source heat pump work with just radiators?
- What other solutions might be possible? There is no fireplace either. I don’t have much experience, so I’m a bit stuck.
I hope this information is helpful. I’m just looking for some ideas, not a complete solution.
Thanks!!
S
SaniererNRW12331 Aug 2022 21:53ypg schrieb:
A lot can be done with visual tricks…!But that doesn’t change the fact that- kitchens, for example, often won’t fit. Even IKEA kitchens are over 200cm (79 inches) tall (unless you skip tall cabinets – but then it will probably look bad)
- many 200cm (79 inches) furniture pieces won’t fit. Tilted 200cm (79 inches) cabinets can’t be installed because their diagonal is longer
- the clear height of a doorway, if a lintel was installed incorrectly, will probably be around 180cm (71 inches) at best. It may even be lower, which can cause a lot of headroom issues
and so on.
You can hide a lot, but there are plenty of hard facts that simply can’t be changed.
ypg schrieb:
A lot can be done with visual tricks…! Well, at 2 meters (6 ft 7 in), as I mentioned, I see not only visual issues but practical ones as well. This height means "my husband has to tilt his head at every door (and that’s every day), and my cousin can’t even stand upright in the usual living spaces." No matter how clever the visual tricks are, they won’t fix that. There’s a limit where things simply become impractical, and when you’re close to that limit, a difference of 5 centimeters (2 inches) more or less suddenly makes a huge difference. Of course, it could be that for the original poster this isn’t an issue since the upper floor is meant for the family and nobody there is particularly tall.
ypg schrieb:
Well, there you have your dream woman in front of you who’s under 1.60 meters (5 feet 3 inches) tall and you’re already saying no... and then you turn your dream woman away over 5 centimeters (2 inches)? There are plenty of visual tricks you can use! Well, you laugh, “wild south.” @WilderSueden @SaniererNRW123 @mayglow and so on...
I think it still applies today, even when everything could be possible but isn’t: better a bird in the hand than two in the bush...
SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
For example, kitchens don’t fit anymore. Even Ikea cabinets are over 200 centimeters (79 inches) tall (unless you skip tall cabinets – but then it probably looks awful) My tall cabinets are 160 centimeters (63 inches) high. Wall cabinets, whether from Ikea or another brand, can always be adjusted in height... As a renovator, you should be aware of possible options and not only think in maximum standard terms.
SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
Many 200cm (79 inches) furniture pieces don’t fit. Tilted 200cm cabinets can’t be installed because the diagonal is too large Exactly. Then 200cm furniture just doesn’t fit. There are plenty of others.
From an interior design perspective, you generally don’t use furniture over 200cm tall when ceiling height is close to 200cm... the same applies when furnishing a rather small room – smaller furniture is more suitable. I don’t see why you would furnish low ceilings with taller cabinets. Why furnish small rooms with large furniture? It’s not all the same!
SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
The door headroom – if a lintel has been installed – will probably max out at 180cm (71 inches). There are probably doors in this house now that you can actually walk through...
mayglow schrieb:
Well, at 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches), I definitely see not only visual issues but the kind of height at which my husband has to duck through every door. It’s probably meant that a very tall person should avoid such spaces. Does the original poster want to make that an issue? Here people are already making a mountain out of a molehill.
i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
I would never invest in a building like that, Some would never invest in a semi-detached house. Or in a living space under 90 square meters (970 square feet)... notice anything?
S
SaniererNRW12331 Aug 2022 22:29ypg schrieb:
Some would never invest in a semi-detached house. Or in living space under 90 sqm (970 sq ft)… notice anything?Yep, I do. A semi-detached house or smaller apartment is subjective. However, ceiling heights no longer allowed today with all their restrictions compared to a modern property is an objective fact.SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
Yep, I notice that. A semi-detached house or smaller apartment is subjective. However, ceiling heights that no longer meet current standards, along with all the restrictions, compared to a modern property, is an objective fact. But this isn’t about new construction; it’s about an existing property. So it’s not about building new to current DIN standards, but rather restoration, preservation of value, etc. You can’t just dismiss everything you don’t like.
By the way, I have addressed @ i_b_n_a_ n.
Radiators are generally not ideal in combination with a heat pump. The supply temperature needs to be fairly high, around 45-55°C (113-131°F), I think. If it’s -10°C (14°F) outside, the heat pump has to manage a temperature difference of about 60°C (108°F).
The area with underfloor heating likely won’t be optimal either—I assume the pipe layout isn’t very dense. In the past, you could save a lot of pipe length because the temperature being circulated was quite high.
I would suggest adding a solar thermal collector with a small storage tank to the existing gas boiler system. It doesn't necessarily have to be installed on the roof, just somewhere with good sun exposure. The gas boiler should be set to run about three times a day to heat the storage tank if needed. In winter, the solar input is quite limited anyway.
That’s about the domestic hot water. For heating the rooms, I would recommend installing one outdoor split air conditioning unit with four or five indoor units placed strategically throughout the building.
This setup is easy to retrofit, and the heatwaves caused by climate change become more bearable, especially if someone in your household spends a lot of time at the computer (waste heat). Of course, this isn’t the perfect solution for minimizing running costs, but it’s not very expensive to implement and doesn’t limit future options. If you want to switch the hot water generation to a heat pump later on, you can do that. However, it only makes sense to do this once the gas boiler fails.
If the solar panel and storage tank system for hot water turns out to be unnecessarily expensive or complicated, you can simply skip it and only install the split air conditioning system. This allows for quite significant savings compared to current gas prices.
At least with this approach, you avoid using an energy-intensive electric heating element, and you don’t have rooms that are too cold because every degree of supply temperature reduces efficiency. When it’s -10°C (14°F), you can always run the gas heater—the efficiency of heat pumps at that temperature is really poor. The gas burns and gets the job done.
The area with underfloor heating likely won’t be optimal either—I assume the pipe layout isn’t very dense. In the past, you could save a lot of pipe length because the temperature being circulated was quite high.
I would suggest adding a solar thermal collector with a small storage tank to the existing gas boiler system. It doesn't necessarily have to be installed on the roof, just somewhere with good sun exposure. The gas boiler should be set to run about three times a day to heat the storage tank if needed. In winter, the solar input is quite limited anyway.
That’s about the domestic hot water. For heating the rooms, I would recommend installing one outdoor split air conditioning unit with four or five indoor units placed strategically throughout the building.
This setup is easy to retrofit, and the heatwaves caused by climate change become more bearable, especially if someone in your household spends a lot of time at the computer (waste heat). Of course, this isn’t the perfect solution for minimizing running costs, but it’s not very expensive to implement and doesn’t limit future options. If you want to switch the hot water generation to a heat pump later on, you can do that. However, it only makes sense to do this once the gas boiler fails.
If the solar panel and storage tank system for hot water turns out to be unnecessarily expensive or complicated, you can simply skip it and only install the split air conditioning system. This allows for quite significant savings compared to current gas prices.
At least with this approach, you avoid using an energy-intensive electric heating element, and you don’t have rooms that are too cold because every degree of supply temperature reduces efficiency. When it’s -10°C (14°F), you can always run the gas heater—the efficiency of heat pumps at that temperature is really poor. The gas burns and gets the job done.
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