ᐅ Experiences with Choosing a Prefabricated House Provider?
Created on: 23 Aug 2022 18:51
H
Hitokiri-1978
Hello everyone,
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
S
SaniererNRW12326 Aug 2022 17:31motorradsilke schrieb:
But that’s a generalization. Not every home office requires two or three monitors. Many employees are only provided with a laptop by their employer. Then it’s not really a home office. To me, that means working regularly from home, not just having a mobile workstation occasionally. I completely reject the idea of a home office without proper equipment. At our company, even the occupational health specialist can come to your home (if you wish) to ensure everything is set up correctly.
Because it’s simply true that without ergonomic equipment, you will eventually develop back problems. Even if you like to slump down somewhere in the corner.
hanse987 schrieb:
"Home office" at the dining table? No thanks! For me, it requires a height-adjustable desk, a good office chair, proper lighting, quality technical equipment, and a separate room that can be closed off from the living area. Nothing is more annoying than having a neighbor’s dog barking, children shouting, and traffic noise in the background during a video call. Of course, there are some tasks where you can lie out on the terrace, but the majority will need a proper workspace. Choose the company you feel most confident about. It’s unlikely that any will build a complete mess. Every construction method has its pros and cons, and each company representative will highlight their own advantages and point out the weaknesses of others. Good for them, bad for the rest! When comparing price differences, you also need to compare the scope of work included. There can be variations here, and this is one aspect where a lower fixed price might mean more work is expected from the builder’s side. The only solution is to read carefully and compare. If you’re not able to do this yourself, you should hire a specialist.
Regarding fire protection mentioned in post 4, you need to distinguish between detached houses and semi-detached houses. Since a semi-detached house is directly connected to another, stricter regulations apply to prevent the fire from spreading directly to the neighboring house. If a detached house catches fire, it’s equally bad for that house itself, but since the next house is at least 6 m (20 feet) away, the distance provides sufficient fire protection. Therefore, there are fewer requirements for the wall in this case.
Regarding fire protection mentioned in post 4, you need to distinguish between detached houses and semi-detached houses. Since a semi-detached house is directly connected to another, stricter regulations apply to prevent the fire from spreading directly to the neighboring house. If a detached house catches fire, it’s equally bad for that house itself, but since the next house is at least 6 m (20 feet) away, the distance provides sufficient fire protection. Therefore, there are fewer requirements for the wall in this case.
Hello Hitokiri,
I’m one of the people who responded to you on FB. Admittedly, about a day later than many others. At first, I didn’t want to reply, but no one addressed your mistake in the question—that the heat INSIDE the house is not primarily caused by wall insulation but by the window openings. People only shared their own positive experiences.
I don’t understand your fear of discussing the floor plan. There are a few here who criticize without questioning or providing arguments. However, the majority offer helpful advice on the floor plan, solar exposure, and how to avoid overheated rooms, for example, by positioning windows well, so you can quickly resolve your questions or open issues.
I don’t know why you think otherwise, since no reasonable design is attacked.
But yes: unrealistic ideas and designs that make no sense at all—where the homeowner may have completely confused things, ignored the questionnaire, and overlooked the subtext—are criticized. But the criticism is explained in a way you can follow, with experienced arguments that can be explained up to three times if they don’t make sense to you right away.
For example, that kind of statement raises alarm bells for me, because saying something “results” from the development plan doesn’t mean it is strictly “required,” nor that it must be built exactly like that, but rather that it can be. Could you consider leaving out the balcony? It would be cheaper… though it seems the bigger issue is the window positions, not the balcony? (By the way, a loggia is a covered balcony.)
Or this:
Is it really that bad to say a few personal words about the reasons behind it? To complete the questionnaire? Communicating and exchanging information helps others understand your needs. Besides, a good design usually explains itself.
That’s quite a lot. The forum usually warns against being influenced by too many players. By now, they are tearing each other apart, and you are caught in the middle.
That’s what I meant: are there no floor plan alternatives that combine all your wishes but solve the problem of the south-facing bedroom window without a sunshade? Although I have to say, I personally find the idea of large uniform sunshades on the house a bit odd.
Of course. They don’t really care where they place the windows or rooms. Selling houses is selling houses. Sellers are sellers. You should notice that by how they tear each other apart.
You’re asking *these people* here right now…
At the moment, I have quotes from you that I am addressing, and they are exactly that: needlessly upsetting, somewhat exaggerated, unprofessional, and stubborn. Maybe 10 of them that I’m using here? You could read your replies yourself…
Annoyed: ...really not!
Snappy: Without offers, I can’t buy anything either.
Over the top: South-facing
Exaggerated: Sorry, no.
Biased: how people get upset for no reason
Cheeky: So that exactly YOU ask this most pointless question,
Rude: Then I certainly won’t discuss this basic argument for the 1000th time, really not!
Speechless: Really now… no words.
Regarding the sunshades—and I assume rooftop terrace with the shed roof?—it does make sense to plan a sunshade or terrace covering for terraces. But not for the sake of the interior rooms, rather because otherwise, you probably won’t want to stay on the terrace for long.
If you’re not home during the day, it makes sense to close the roller shutters. When at home, you can open the east side during the midday hours and the west side in the morning to let in daylight.
With a semi-detached house, you naturally have fewer options for the terrace, but a small tree or shrub right next to the terrace and another tree nearby and south of the house will provide shade and coolness.
And yes: people tend to spend more time outside than inside, often a bit away from the house, because it’s breezier further away.
You don’t “just think about” a job—what kind of sentence is that? And if someone earns well and enjoys working from home, that has little to do with a terrace. Those who can should enjoy it, but don’t claim someone is “living their life wrong” if they can’t or don’t want to work sitting in the garden.
I’m one of the people who responded to you on FB. Admittedly, about a day later than many others. At first, I didn’t want to reply, but no one addressed your mistake in the question—that the heat INSIDE the house is not primarily caused by wall insulation but by the window openings. People only shared their own positive experiences.
I don’t understand your fear of discussing the floor plan. There are a few here who criticize without questioning or providing arguments. However, the majority offer helpful advice on the floor plan, solar exposure, and how to avoid overheated rooms, for example, by positioning windows well, so you can quickly resolve your questions or open issues.
I don’t know why you think otherwise, since no reasonable design is attacked.
But yes: unrealistic ideas and designs that make no sense at all—where the homeowner may have completely confused things, ignored the questionnaire, and overlooked the subtext—are criticized. But the criticism is explained in a way you can follow, with experienced arguments that can be explained up to three times if they don’t make sense to you right away.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
Requirement from the development plan. We have to build a shed roof in this position, which also results in a bay window with a balcony/loggia.
For example, that kind of statement raises alarm bells for me, because saying something “results” from the development plan doesn’t mean it is strictly “required,” nor that it must be built exactly like that, but rather that it can be. Could you consider leaving out the balcony? It would be cheaper… though it seems the bigger issue is the window positions, not the balcony? (By the way, a loggia is a covered balcony.)
Or this:
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
I would probably have to explain each room one by one here, why it is drawn exactly this size and in this location.
Is it really that bad to say a few personal words about the reasons behind it? To complete the questionnaire? Communicating and exchanging information helps others understand your needs. Besides, a good design usually explains itself.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
Those who can read have a clear advantage. I only had more detailed conversations with about 12 providers, but yes… the first was around 2019.
That’s quite a lot. The forum usually warns against being influenced by too many players. By now, they are tearing each other apart, and you are caught in the middle.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
Because, I repeat, we have a south-facing orientation of the terrace/living room/bedroom.
That’s what I meant: are there no floor plan alternatives that combine all your wishes but solve the problem of the south-facing bedroom window without a sunshade? Although I have to say, I personally find the idea of large uniform sunshades on the house a bit odd.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
The fact is, every one of the last 8-10 providers called our floor plan feasible from a structural, planning, and production perspective—or well thought-out.
Of course. They don’t really care where they place the windows or rooms. Selling houses is selling houses. Sellers are sellers. You should notice that by how they tear each other apart.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
I’m posting this here just to see people get upset for no reason 😀
You’re asking *these people* here right now…
At the moment, I have quotes from you that I am addressing, and they are exactly that: needlessly upsetting, somewhat exaggerated, unprofessional, and stubborn. Maybe 10 of them that I’m using here? You could read your replies yourself…
Annoyed: ...really not!
Snappy: Without offers, I can’t buy anything either.
Over the top: South-facing
Exaggerated: Sorry, no.
Biased: how people get upset for no reason
Cheeky: So that exactly YOU ask this most pointless question,
Rude: Then I certainly won’t discuss this basic argument for the 1000th time, really not!
Speechless: Really now… no words.
Regarding the sunshades—and I assume rooftop terrace with the shed roof?—it does make sense to plan a sunshade or terrace covering for terraces. But not for the sake of the interior rooms, rather because otherwise, you probably won’t want to stay on the terrace for long.
If you’re not home during the day, it makes sense to close the roller shutters. When at home, you can open the east side during the midday hours and the west side in the morning to let in daylight.
With a semi-detached house, you naturally have fewer options for the terrace, but a small tree or shrub right next to the terrace and another tree nearby and south of the house will provide shade and coolness.
And yes: people tend to spend more time outside than inside, often a bit away from the house, because it’s breezier further away.
motorradsilke schrieb:
Everyone has to think about how their life looks and what fits. Here we can only offer food for thought.
You don’t “just think about” a job—what kind of sentence is that? And if someone earns well and enjoys working from home, that has little to do with a terrace. Those who can should enjoy it, but don’t claim someone is “living their life wrong” if they can’t or don’t want to work sitting in the garden.
F
fromthisplace26 Aug 2022 23:27I just read his post on FB. It seems he has made up his mind. It’s a pity because his project and the discussion here could have been (very) beneficial for him.
On the other hand, I clearly remember how in January 2021 we debated whether to share our floor plan here or risk being unsettled by criticism. Then @11ant posted the first positive comment, and the house building forum world was back on track.
Back to the topic: It’s true that the tone here can sometimes be rough (right, [USER=12491]@ypg? 🙂), but the forum is significantly more helpful for (almost) every builder.
On the other hand, I clearly remember how in January 2021 we debated whether to share our floor plan here or risk being unsettled by criticism. Then @11ant posted the first positive comment, and the house building forum world was back on track.
Back to the topic: It’s true that the tone here can sometimes be rough (right, [USER=12491]@ypg? 🙂), but the forum is significantly more helpful for (almost) every builder.
HausiKlausi26 Aug 2022 23:28I generally feel that the original poster’s questions cannot really be answered to their full satisfaction. There is a lot of uncertainty about making wrong decisions on detailed issues that may not even need to be made. From what I understand, the main focus—besides the price—is on insulation. However, the type of material is only a small part of many factors that influence how a house heats up. You have done extensive research, so go for it. Sometimes, especially with large projects, you simply have to make decisions, otherwise you might end up blocking yourself or the suppliers might give up out of frustration. No one here can tell you to choose option 1 or 3.
H
Hitokiri-19789 Sep 2022 17:33So.. thanks for all the contributions. So yes, we have now made the final decision (the digital signature is still drying 😉 ) to go with Haas Fertigbau. Please, no comments like "oh, was that really smart?" or "Haas has a bad reputation, they constantly deceive their customers with bait offers" or "your own fault, you should have listened to us, enjoy your overpriced, drafty wreck, haha!"... 🙁 Thanks, but I don't need any more uncertainty right now. The decision is final.
We have already had the offers reviewed by well-known prefab house experts and also had the purchase contract checked by another expert who pointed out certain "problems" and pitfalls. This morning we had a phone call with the seller (Hello Mr. K., if you are reading ^^), where we worked through our points and will have them included in the contract accordingly. If something still goes wrong now... my conscience is clear. My wife and I have spent hours and hours on preliminary planning, research, discussions, more discussions, even more discussions :/ etc., racking our brains about how to make the best decision with the fewest mistakes. Now, some specific answers to a few points 🙂
With that in mind, I’m ready to make peace, HUZZAH! 😀
We have already had the offers reviewed by well-known prefab house experts and also had the purchase contract checked by another expert who pointed out certain "problems" and pitfalls. This morning we had a phone call with the seller (Hello Mr. K., if you are reading ^^), where we worked through our points and will have them included in the contract accordingly. If something still goes wrong now... my conscience is clear. My wife and I have spent hours and hours on preliminary planning, research, discussions, more discussions, even more discussions :/ etc., racking our brains about how to make the best decision with the fewest mistakes. Now, some specific answers to a few points 🙂
motorradsilke schrieb:Yes, everyone has their own way, as can be seen from the comments later. My wife and I are not sun worshippers, and when it gets really hot I either hide in a dark, cool cave or go to a body of water or pool. (Is that a hint for a prefabricated pool in the garden? 😉
I’m sitting in the garden at almost 30°C (86°F) and the big south-facing window of the open living space is open.
Tolentino schrieb:Sorry, that was not my intention if it came across that way. It’s just incredibly frustrating after months (we have been thinking since 2019 and especially after the land was confirmed in recent months) about what and how we want to build, not to have to rehash old issues again right before the final decision.
Now you’re being condescending and disrespectful.
driver55 schrieb:Why not? Slowly now... For me, blinds are the things INSIDE the room behind the glass. Roller shutters (or exterior blinds) are on the OUTSIDE of the window. Venetian blinds (Raffstores) are also outside, but my wife has reservations about those because of bad experiences at her office (they get stuck, break easily in the wind, etc.). An awning = a stretched dark fabric sloping over a space/window.
You don’t actually want to install 3 to 5 awnings on the south side, do you?! That’s why I suggested blinds.
driver55 schrieb:That’s exactly what I’ve been saying all along! I am not a professional or an expert, just trying to absorb it all! (like most here, I guess). Why can’t someone simply answer "a 25cm (10 inch) wall is too thin because..."? That’s what I mean with these unpleasant high-school-teacher-like lectures 😕
Anyone asking whether a 25cm (10 inch) wall is too thick or too thin frankly doesn’t know the subject.
WilderSueden schrieb:Yes, that’s the challenge. On the one hand, lots of light, on the other not too much heat in the rooms. But now we have a (preliminary) floor plan.
Another approach would be to reduce window areas so that not too much heat enters and to plan rooms so you preferably don’t spend time in the hottest rooms.
motorradsilke schrieb:Apparently during the height of the pandemic, 80% of employees did! That number is likely lower now, but working from home is still common for us even outside of COVID, so hardly anyone goes to the office.
And not everyone works from home (probably very few).
hanse987 schrieb:Yes, that was also the seller’s explanation. Thanks.
If a single-family house catches fire, it’s just as bad for your own house, but since the other house is at least 6 meters (20 feet) away, the distance ensures fire protection. That’s why there are fewer regulations for the wall.
ypg schrieb:Depends on what others consider proper, right? 😉 We didn’t just whip up the floor plan in 2 minutes 😉 We’ve thought about it a lot.
I don’t know why you think it should be different because no proper design gets torn apart.
ypg schrieb:The 2.5m (8 foot) deep extension on the south side theoretically wouldn’t be necessary, but the development plan requires building “congruent with the neighboring building.” This applies to the roof (although up to 1 meter (3 feet) height difference is allowed) as well as the facades, and that has been the official statement from the municipality regarding the extension. By the way, the neighbours (who are also building with Haas, which influenced our decision, same basement provider, etc.) We also planned versions without the extension and found that there would be almost no increase in living space compared to our rental apartment, so we quickly decided to plan with the extension.
Would it be an option to leave out the balcony, for example?
ypg schrieb:Thanks for that.
I’m one of those who replied to you on Facebook.
ypg schrieb:As I said, I’ve been burned before here and I’ve seen how other people got grilled. I’m just not interested in that. But... I have now posted the floor plan sketches here for feedback. 🙂 So, go ahead.
People communicate and exchange ideas to get to know each other’s needs.
ypg schrieb:I already had the idea of inviting all four salespeople to coffee and cake (without informing the others) for a joint meeting where they could argue over whose offer is no good and whose is best 😉 😀 My wife said that would only bring bad karma 😀
In the end, they are tearing each other apart and you’re stuck in the middle.
ypg schrieb:What’s a “multiple awning” compared to a “normal awning?”
I also find the idea of multiple awnings on a house personally strange.
ypg schrieb:OMG. Do you have too much time? 😀 😀 No offense, and yes... sorry if anyone felt attacked the other way around. Interesting analysis ^^
Annoyed: ... definitely not!
Snappy: Well, I can’t buy anything without offers.
Exaggerated: South orientation
Over the top: Sorry, no.
Biased: how people get upset for no reason
Cheeky: So that exactly YOU ask this most pointless question,
Outrageous: Then I definitely won’t have this same fundamental discussion for the 1000th time, no way!
Without comment: Seriously... no words.
ypg schrieb:Sort of, not along the full length, just the one over the window at the balcony.
About the awnings – I assume the flat roof terrace?
ypg schrieb:Definitely! Even as passive burglary protection/deterrent.
If you’re not home during the day, it makes sense to close the shutters.
ypg schrieb:Exactly the plan 🙂
For terraces, it makes sense to plan an awning or roof covering. Not for the interior rooms but because otherwise you may not want to spend long on the terrace.
ypg schrieb:Yes, but it will take years before they provide significant shade. Yes, something will be planted, but I don’t want to move in only after 10 years. 🙂
But a small tree or shrub directly by the terrace and a tree nearby to the south will give you shade and coolness.
fromthisplace schrieb:Hmm... that username looks familiar to me :/ Beneficial... well, I’m not selling anything right now 😀 Cost cutting… more like that.
Back to topic: It’s true the tone here can sometimes be harsh (right, @ypg 🙂?), but the forum is beneficial for (almost) every builder to a much higher degree.
HausiKlausi schrieb:That’s exactly how it is and that’s why we made the decision.
You’ve done a lot of research, so go for it. Sometimes with big projects you just have to make decisions, otherwise you get in your own way.
With that in mind, I’m ready to make peace, HUZZAH! 😀
Similar topics