ᐅ Experiences with Choosing a Prefabricated House Provider?
Created on: 23 Aug 2022 18:51
H
Hitokiri-1978
Hello everyone,
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
M
motorradsilke26 Aug 2022 12:49Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
Because, I’ll repeat myself, we have a suuuuuouth-facing orientation of the terrace/living room/bedroom. And there are no trees or other shading elements in front of it. Also, I’ve read from many different sources that most of the heat enters through the windows, and the only effective way to reduce that is through shading. Hence, awnings. Additionally, we have roller shutters, but you don’t want to sit inside in the afternoon in the dark just to keep it bearable. Running an energy-consuming air conditioner was not an option.
When the weather is nice, you don’t sit inside in the afternoon, so you’re not sitting in the dark either. If you feel shading is absolutely necessary, you can also do that with roller shutters since you won’t be inside anyway. Also, consider how many days this actually applies in Germany. I’m currently sitting in the garden at almost 30 degrees Celsius (86°F), and the large south-facing window of the open-plan living area is wide open. Inside it’s also close to 30 degrees Celsius (86°F), but in the evening, after enough cross-ventilation, it cools down again inside the house. The bedroom faces northwest, so the roller shutters go down in the afternoon, which keeps it comfortable enough to sleep. You can still install an awning later — just try living in the finished house first and see how often the heat really bothers you inside.
Regarding wall constructions and prefabricated house manufacturers, I can’t say much. They were already ruled out for us in the first round because all of them had lead times of 1 to 1.5 years.
I also don’t understand your issue with the balcony. Can’t you turn it into a room? You would have to show the floor plan for that, but I understand you don’t want to share that here.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
The fact that YOU are asking this pointless question, even though I clearly stated that we are now making our FINAL decision and have been in the selection process for months, means I’m definitely not going to have this fundamental discussion again for the 1000th time, seriously not! Now you’re being condescending and disrespectful. I didn’t want to start a discussion; I just asked a question. A straightforward answer might have helped me understand your priorities better and given me tips to hopefully get closer to your decision successfully.
But honestly, I’m no longer interested either. You’ve already found a better place that suits your needs, so no worries.
Anyone asking whether a 25cm (10 inch) wall is too thick or too thin clearly (sorry) doesn’t understand the subject.
I’d like to see a wall of that thickness that actually meets the KfW100 standard. That calculation is probably just “beautified” by the heat pump.
And about the floor plan: they build anything that can be roughly cut and glued or screwed together.
You don’t really want to install 3 to 5 awnings on the south side, do you?! That’s why I suggested blinds.
I’d like to see a wall of that thickness that actually meets the KfW100 standard. That calculation is probably just “beautified” by the heat pump.
And about the floor plan: they build anything that can be roughly cut and glued or screwed together.
You don’t really want to install 3 to 5 awnings on the south side, do you?! That’s why I suggested blinds.
W
WilderSueden26 Aug 2022 14:01motorradsilke schrieb:
And consider how many days this actually applies to in Germany.That really depends on the region in Germany. This summer, almost every location likely experienced double-digit days above 30°C (86°F), with many closer to 20 than 10, and the trend doesn’t seem to be improving. Plus, there were additional days in the high 20s Celsius. Basically, we had three months of consistently daytime temperatures well above 25°C (77°F). When the sun shines through large windows, shading becomes necessary.I find the concept of shading windows with awnings somewhat limited; this is usually done with roller shutters or blinds. Ideally, you have windows facing different directions, so you can, for example, shade only the south-facing windows while keeping the east or west sides bright. Of course, that’s not always possible. Another approach would be to reduce the size of window areas to limit heat gain and plan rooms so that you preferably avoid spending time in the hottest spaces during peak heat. Thoughtful design of the outdoor area helps as well; you don’t have to sit on the terrace during midday heat but can create alternative shaded seating spots. There are many options, but the layout really needs to be discussed in detail.
M
motorradsilke26 Aug 2022 14:07WilderSueden schrieb:
It really depends a lot on where you are in Germany. This summer, almost every location likely experienced a double-digit number of days over 30 degrees Celsius (86°F), many closer to 20 than 10, and the trend doesn’t seem to be improving. Plus, there were quite a few days in the high 20s. Basically, we’ve had three months straight with daytime temperatures well above 25 degrees Celsius (77°F). When the sun shines through large windows, you definitely need shading.
I think using awnings to shade windows is only moderately effective; this is usually done with roller shutters or blinds. Ideally, you have windows facing different directions so you can shade, for example, only the south-facing side while keeping the east and west sides bright. But that’s not always possible. Another approach is to reduce window area to limit heat gain and plan rooms so you don’t spend much time in the hottest areas during peak heat. Designing the outdoor space accordingly also helps — you don’t have to sit on the terrace during midday heat but can create shaded seating alternatives. There are many options, but this needs a concrete discussion of the floor plan. 😉Of course, it depends on your location. Unfortunately, we didn’t have many days above 25 degrees Celsius (77°F).
But you don’t HAVE to use shading at over 25 degrees Celsius (77°F), not even on south-facing windows. You can simply live with summer on warm days. Who stays inside during these temperatures except for sleeping? The important thing is just to keep the bedroom comfortable.
W
WilderSueden26 Aug 2022 14:25motorradsilke schrieb:
Who stays inside the house at these temperatures except for sleeping? Home office, doing homework, cooking, and more...
Also, any heat that accumulates inside the house needs to be released later. With several hot days in a row and correspondingly warm nights, this is only partially possible, and the temperature will keep rising. Then it becomes difficult to keep the bedrooms cool. This doesn’t mean everyone definitely needs to install an air conditioner, but heat should not be underestimated. Downplaying it doesn’t help anyone.
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