ᐅ Experiences with Choosing a Prefabricated House Provider?
Created on: 23 Aug 2022 18:51
H
Hitokiri-1978H
Hitokiri-197823 Aug 2022 18:51Hello everyone,
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
After all this time, the uncomfortable (one of many) moment is approaching when we have to decide which provider we ultimately want to work with. Here are a few key details:
New development area, construction according to the zoning plan:
Semi-detached house with a mono-pitched roof, north-facing, 230 sqm (2,475 sq ft) plot, basement, ground floor, first floor, attic, roof pitch 10-12°, air-to-water heat pump is fixed, ventilation system (we’re still unsure if this is really necessary), about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of living space. It was important to us to have a half-landing staircase; otherwise, we have no special requests, maybe just a floor-level shower in the master bathroom, but that’s it. We have to build an unnecessarily large balcony, 7 x 2.5 m (23 x 8 ft).
We are very concerned that due to the south-facing garden terrace, which has no shading at all, the house will become unbearably hot in summer. We researched this and found that, regarding heat protection, mineral wool insulation performs worst. The commonly used polystyrene insulation is better but still not really good. The best option with a reasonable price would be wood fiber insulation. The roof should also be insulated with it if possible. Yes, we plan to retrofit shading with awnings on the windows, but the question about the wall construction remains.
After several selection rounds and numerous inquiries, only four providers remain who could meet all our requirements and the zoning plan specifications. These are Haas and Fischer Haus (both with 40 cm (15.7 inches) and 36 cm (14.2 inches) thick exterior walls with polystyrene, wood fiber insulation is not offered), as well as Lehner and Keitel-Haus (both with wood fiber insulation in the exterior walls, 25 cm (9.8 inches) and 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick).
Apart from that, all four can do roughly the same. (Our floor plan, a certain amount of owner work, electric roller shutters, roof pitch 10-12°, and roofing with clay/concrete tiles, construction period.) If we can even compare the final prices, there is a difference of about 25,000 euros. We want to carry out the excavation and basement work together with our neighbors if possible. They will most likely build with Haas, which is why Keitel-Haus also came into our considerations.
Pros/Cons Haas:
+ Neighbors building with them, synergies, about 17,000 euros in savings/discounts
+ Appears large and reliable, but not too big like pure investment companies
- Very thick walls (loss of living space)
- No wood fiber insulation
- Most expensive offer of the four
Fischer:
+ Very structured and clear offer
+ Company size similar to Haas
- No wood fiber insulation
Lehner:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ Always responded immediately without restrictions to our requests and questions
- Allegedly only one afternoon for selections, which seems very short to us
- Somewhat confusing offer with unclear options
Keitel-Haus:
+ Wood fiber insulation
+ 34 cm (13.4 inches) thick walls for heat and cold protection
+ Cheapest provider
- No preliminary consultation like with the other approximately 12 providers before; they only became relevant through the neighbors
- Feels like a small outfit; even the selection appointment looks squeezed into a private apartment
So... how should we decide? The prices are binding for only a few more days, or until the end of August, then two have already threatened, uh, announced price increases 😉
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
but the question about the wall construction remains.Why? You have probably reviewed “all” prefabricated house suppliers by now. Why are two of them still shortlisted whose insulation (wall construction) you are not convinced about?
Why do you need to build a balcony?
I now consider a ventilation system essential in modern airtight buildings.
A 25 cm (10 inch) exterior wall (timber frame?) is no longer state of the art.
Have you each submitted your floor plan? From you or an architect?
Is it possible to see it here anywhere?
Proper wall construction, roof insulation, blinds, and a ventilation system—and summer can come. The appropriate windows should not even be up for discussion.
W
WilderSueden23 Aug 2022 22:39driver55 schrieb:
Why are two options being shortlisted when you are not convinced about their insulation (wall construction)?Based on other threads, price seems to be the deciding factor. Although I still wonder why construction is being pursued at all. It was already a problem with the figures back then, and with current interest rates and building costs, it’s ultimately financial self-destruction.H
Hitokiri-197825 Aug 2022 18:09I hope others will chime in as well. I just had a phone call with the representative from Haas, who unfortunately told us that our idea of using polystyrene on the exterior combined with wood fiber insulation on the inside within the timber frame is NOT possible, supposedly due to fire safety regulations. Strangely enough, this would be allowed for a single-family house but not for a semi-detached house. It’s apparently fine if it burns by itself, but the neighbor can’t catch fire as well... hmm... I’m skeptical as to whether a real fire would really be stopped by such technicalities. So, the options are either (from outside) plaster, polystyrene, a thin wood panel, timber frame with mineral wool insulation, or the option with mineral wool instead of polystyrene and wood fiber instead of mineral wool in the insulation (everything else stays the same) at an extra cost of €14,000 (about USD 14,000). This is roughly the price difference between Haas and Keitel-Haus.
Not all (about 50 plus some small carpentry businesses) for sure, but we have concrete offers from around 12 providers for our floor plan with initial consultations. Specifically Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus, Bien-Zenker, Hanse, Elk, Fischer, Lehner, Dan Haus, and Haas. Keitel-Haus only came into consideration because our neighbors had shortlisted them. They were initially excluded for us as well, but when we declined them, we received a “complaint” email claiming that their wall construction easily beats the cheap one from Haas, and so we gave them another chance with our now revised floor plan— and behold, everything we wanted and needed can be delivered along with a good wall structure. The Haas representative, in turn, dismisses Keitel-Haus, but many sources say wood fiber can handle moisture well on the exterior and generally offers the best thermal protection (comparing wood fiber, polystyrene, and mineral wool).
Honestly, I’d love to lock all the sales reps in one room with our floor plans and see who comes out on top after the debate 🙂 We’re just the clueless ones, who don’t really know much, and they can tell us anything—they are happy to contradict themselves from one day to the next. 🙁
Because all the others were already eliminated for various reasons. We aren’t really convinced by any of them! The combination of quality, heat protection, features, flexibility, and price is simply not good in any of the offers. But maybe that’s just how it has to be 🙁
It’s a requirement from the building regulations/planning permission. We have to build a monopitch roof in that position, which results in a bay window with a balcony/loggia. I wouldn’t need one that big (2.5m x 7m (8 feet x 23 feet))! At least everyone tries to recommend putting a hot tub on it 😀
Yes, I’m afraid so. It just costs more money and the benefits are... well, I’d call it “a matter of belief” 😉 But I can still decide until the final selection.
Why? Because it’s too thin or too thick?
Yes. We created it with Roomsketcher. Of course, it’s not a professional CAD program, but it’s great for drawing rooms, furnishing them, and even viewing in 3D! We included all measurements, plus window sizes, and so on. We received offers from 10 providers. Unfortunately, we made the mistake of assuming the exterior and interior walls were narrower than standard, which almost no one offers. As soon as we adjusted the wall thickness, the layout no longer worked, so we had to redesign everything. Now we have the new layout and again have offers from the last 6 providers; two dropped out, leaving four.
All providers offered us windows with a U-value of 0.5 (triple-glazed with plastic frames). So they should be basically the same. We definitely want to fit all south and west-facing windows with awnings.
Because the need is there! We want to have a second child; number one has already taken over everything. Why not buy an existing house? Well, without offers, you can’t buy. The market is completely empty. Houses south of Ingolstadt to Regensburg simply don’t exist with the right features (number of rooms, square meters, year built). The only option would be to move far away, but we want to avoid that if possible. I know... EVERYONE says it’s the worst time to build right now, but, as I said, the need exists :/
Regarding financing: we might get lucky and receive unexpected support from family via a private loan, which would eliminate the banks completely. But that is not yet 100% certain.
driver55 schrieb:
Why? You’ve probably looked at "all" prefab house providers by now.
Not all (about 50 plus some small carpentry businesses) for sure, but we have concrete offers from around 12 providers for our floor plan with initial consultations. Specifically Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus, Bien-Zenker, Hanse, Elk, Fischer, Lehner, Dan Haus, and Haas. Keitel-Haus only came into consideration because our neighbors had shortlisted them. They were initially excluded for us as well, but when we declined them, we received a “complaint” email claiming that their wall construction easily beats the cheap one from Haas, and so we gave them another chance with our now revised floor plan— and behold, everything we wanted and needed can be delivered along with a good wall structure. The Haas representative, in turn, dismisses Keitel-Haus, but many sources say wood fiber can handle moisture well on the exterior and generally offers the best thermal protection (comparing wood fiber, polystyrene, and mineral wool).
Honestly, I’d love to lock all the sales reps in one room with our floor plans and see who comes out on top after the debate 🙂 We’re just the clueless ones, who don’t really know much, and they can tell us anything—they are happy to contradict themselves from one day to the next. 🙁
driver55 schrieb:
Why are you considering two options whose insulation (wall build-up) you’re not convinced about?
Because all the others were already eliminated for various reasons. We aren’t really convinced by any of them! The combination of quality, heat protection, features, flexibility, and price is simply not good in any of the offers. But maybe that’s just how it has to be 🙁
driver55 schrieb:
Why do you have to build a balcony?
It’s a requirement from the building regulations/planning permission. We have to build a monopitch roof in that position, which results in a bay window with a balcony/loggia. I wouldn’t need one that big (2.5m x 7m (8 feet x 23 feet))! At least everyone tries to recommend putting a hot tub on it 😀
driver55 schrieb:
I now consider a ventilation system a must for these airtight buildings.
Yes, I’m afraid so. It just costs more money and the benefits are... well, I’d call it “a matter of belief” 😉 But I can still decide until the final selection.
driver55 schrieb:
A 25 cm (10 inch) exterior wall (timber frame?) is no longer state of the art.
Why? Because it’s too thin or too thick?
driver55 schrieb:
Did you provide your floor plan to all of them? Was it yours or from an architect?
Can it be seen here somewhere?
Yes. We created it with Roomsketcher. Of course, it’s not a professional CAD program, but it’s great for drawing rooms, furnishing them, and even viewing in 3D! We included all measurements, plus window sizes, and so on. We received offers from 10 providers. Unfortunately, we made the mistake of assuming the exterior and interior walls were narrower than standard, which almost no one offers. As soon as we adjusted the wall thickness, the layout no longer worked, so we had to redesign everything. Now we have the new layout and again have offers from the last 6 providers; two dropped out, leaving four.
driver55 schrieb:
Proper wall construction, roof insulation, blinds, and ventilation system—and summer can come. The choice of windows should not even be up for discussion.
All providers offered us windows with a U-value of 0.5 (triple-glazed with plastic frames). So they should be basically the same. We definitely want to fit all south and west-facing windows with awnings.
WilderSueden schrieb:
I still wonder why you’re even building.
Because the need is there! We want to have a second child; number one has already taken over everything. Why not buy an existing house? Well, without offers, you can’t buy. The market is completely empty. Houses south of Ingolstadt to Regensburg simply don’t exist with the right features (number of rooms, square meters, year built). The only option would be to move far away, but we want to avoid that if possible. I know... EVERYONE says it’s the worst time to build right now, but, as I said, the need exists :/
Regarding financing: we might get lucky and receive unexpected support from family via a private loan, which would eliminate the banks completely. But that is not yet 100% certain.
Hitokiri-1978 schrieb:
Why? Because it’s too thin or too thick? You’re not serious about the question, right? 🙄
And what do you want to do with interior insulation?
If you have really evaluated all providers thoroughly here, compared them, had discussions, etc., that must have taken (or is taking) at least 2 years.
What’s your issue with awnings, by the way?
I’d start with the floor plan. Please show it.
You won’t find quality and “cost little” at the same time.
There are still one or two interesting providers (in my opinion).
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