ᐅ Gas Prices – Where Is Gas Still Affordable?

Deliverer schrieb:

@motorradsilke Come on Silke, join in.
Why does my post make you sad? Did I say something wrong? Do you have any arguments to refute my claim, or do you just not like it?

I have a different opinion on this. Renewable energy is good and, of course, should be promoted and expanded (the money for the defense budget would be better spent on subsidies), but as a small country, we won’t save the world unless the major players participate. And right now, current policies are causing a lot of unnecessary suffering in the country. Nord Stream 2 is ready and could deliver. That would make gas prices affordable again, ensure enough supply, and people wouldn’t have to worry about their livelihoods. Of course, it would support Putin, but he would sell his gas elsewhere anyway.

Then gradually raising the price of gas and oil and using the revenue to fund renewable energy would, in my view, be the right approach.

As I said, I know many people who are genuinely afraid now. And the politicians are just letting that happen.

halmi schrieb:

Just provide evidence for your claims,

You’re right, I would very much like to provide more links. Unfortunately, you often get warned here for that, so I try to include relevant search terms instead.

For your general question, searching for “100% renewable Fraunhofer” and “100% renewable IFEU” will be helpful. That’s where you can find the current scientific consensus. The Berlin group around Quaschning has also recently recalculated this.

For which other claim would you like data?

PS: If I don’t write anything more later, it’s not because of me but because the moderator interprets the above as a “reference to external websites”... ;-)

Deliverer schrieb:

You’re right, I would really, really like to share more links. Unfortunately, you often get warned for that here, so I try to include search terms.

For your general question, "100% renewable Fraunhofer" and "100% renewable Ifeu" are helpful. You can find the current scientific status there. The Berlin group around Quaschning has also recalculated this recently.

What other claim do you want data for?

PS: If I don’t post anymore later, it’s not because of me, but because the moderator interprets the above as a "reference to external websites"... ;-)

I would like to point out that what is theoretically possible and what is practically achievable often differ significantly. Because people and their societies simply don’t function like technocratic Excel spreadsheets.

These concerns come to me especially when I hear a Fridays For Future representative say: "You just have to(sic!) […]"

No! If it were that simple, it would have been done already. But it is nearly endlessly complicated due to reasons that have nothing to do with physics or technology, but with human nature as it is.

motorradsilke schrieb:

I have a different opinion on this.

Thanks for keeping track. I think what we should clarify better in the discussion is the separation of topics between “climate change and possible solutions” and “the war in Ukraine.”
Just because I want a rapid expansion of renewable energy doesn’t mean I want anyone to freeze or suffer until then.
I have also never commented on which measures against Putin are appropriate or what can be expected from the German population to hold accountable those responsible for the killing of tens of thousands. THAT is really a tough job that our politicians currently have to manage.

What I said was: If we hadn’t been so unprepared, we could have fully sanctioned Putin WITHOUT having to freeze in winter. And maybe I hope that this will wake someone up so we can do better in the future.

What I did NOT say is that by tomorrow every 88-year-old widow has to replace her oil heating system with a heat pump and must insulate her house. Also, Mr. “I’ve-always-split-my-own-firewood” is welcome to continue heating his yard with wood. But does that mean everyone now has to start replacing gas with wood out of panic over the war?

With that said, enjoy your meal.

chand1986 schrieb:

but that people are the way they are.

And this is exactly where we need to start, which is why I wear down my keycaps here like this. Even if it encourages just one person to think and switch from pellets to a heat pump, then it has served its purpose.

@Deliverer, it might be possible by 2050, but we would like it done by 2030, or at the latest 2035. How it could work in theory has been written about countless times, but how do you actually implement it? That’s why I’m asking a concrete question—googling studies is quite easy. How exactly do you plan to convert a city like Berlin from central, or even worse, decentralized gas or oil heating systems to heat pumps in an efficient and tenant-affordable way? Specifically? You could renovate half the city completely, but then the issue of “more affordable housing” is off the table.

What is the current status? We can’t even manage to build the power lines needed to transport renewable electricity across the country. Ironically, these are often blocked by those who want green electricity.

In my opinion, there is simply a serious lack of realism here. A large part is wishful thinking and daydreaming.