Hello everyone,
we are at the very beginning of our building project and are currently complete beginners.
We are about to purchase our building plot near Wolfsburg, Lower Saxony. We expect to start construction on our fully serviced plot in the middle of next year.
Although there is still plenty of time ahead, we want to start planning now. Often, turnkey homes at fixed prices are offered by various companies. However, many friends and colleagues recently advised me to carry out the planning (and ultimately the approvals) with an architect and to contract the trades individually during construction. The cost savings could be at least €50,000.
I am quite flexible with my time at work and would be interested in diving deeper into the topic and investing a lot of my own time and energy. Since I work as an IT project manager, I am not very skilled with practical tasks. However, I feel confident managing the project itself.
Ultimately, I would approach this financially quite pragmatically: if by investing my own effort in the build I can save more money than I earn net in the same time, I would prefer to focus less on my job and spend more time on the build. With a potential saving of over €50,000, this would very likely be the case.
However, I do wonder if this approach really makes sense for me. My biggest concerns are in hiring tradespeople. There is often talk of a shortage of skilled workers, and if as a private home builder I end up waiting, for example, 1.5 years to get a roofer, I certainly wouldn’t have gained anything.
I would greatly appreciate your assessments!
we are at the very beginning of our building project and are currently complete beginners.
We are about to purchase our building plot near Wolfsburg, Lower Saxony. We expect to start construction on our fully serviced plot in the middle of next year.
Although there is still plenty of time ahead, we want to start planning now. Often, turnkey homes at fixed prices are offered by various companies. However, many friends and colleagues recently advised me to carry out the planning (and ultimately the approvals) with an architect and to contract the trades individually during construction. The cost savings could be at least €50,000.
I am quite flexible with my time at work and would be interested in diving deeper into the topic and investing a lot of my own time and energy. Since I work as an IT project manager, I am not very skilled with practical tasks. However, I feel confident managing the project itself.
Ultimately, I would approach this financially quite pragmatically: if by investing my own effort in the build I can save more money than I earn net in the same time, I would prefer to focus less on my job and spend more time on the build. With a potential saving of over €50,000, this would very likely be the case.
However, I do wonder if this approach really makes sense for me. My biggest concerns are in hiring tradespeople. There is often talk of a shortage of skilled workers, and if as a private home builder I end up waiting, for example, 1.5 years to get a roofer, I certainly wouldn’t have gained anything.
I would greatly appreciate your assessments!
K
karl.jonas9 Mar 2022 00:56If you search around here a bit or follow discussions for a while, you will see that there are many opinions on your question but no definitive answer. Building a custom home is probably enjoyable with a good construction manager and architect. With poor ones, it is not. A fixed-price contract from the general contractor or the prefab home supplier helps some builders sleep better; for others, that is not so important.
I haven’t laid a single brick yet, but I already see that choosing the architect and the surveyor involves work, negotiating ideas and prices with five architects and five surveyors. It’s relatively simple with the surveyor (because it’s clear what they are supposed to deliver), but not with the architect. How can a layperson recognize a good architect? You often read about needing good chemistry (but do good chemists also build good houses?), or sometimes recommendations come from a friend’s spouse. The prices asked (at least by my architects) vary dramatically, and the most expensive is definitely not the best. I’m already looking forward to the 32,000 trades I still have ahead of me.
The more dependent you are on adhering to schedules and budgets, the more you might want to choose a professional who has done this many times and will take the work off your hands. Of course, that costs something. If you can stay relaxed about your own planning mistakes (remember, you are an amateur!), then you might be the type for doing it yourself.
I haven’t laid a single brick yet, but I already see that choosing the architect and the surveyor involves work, negotiating ideas and prices with five architects and five surveyors. It’s relatively simple with the surveyor (because it’s clear what they are supposed to deliver), but not with the architect. How can a layperson recognize a good architect? You often read about needing good chemistry (but do good chemists also build good houses?), or sometimes recommendations come from a friend’s spouse. The prices asked (at least by my architects) vary dramatically, and the most expensive is definitely not the best. I’m already looking forward to the 32,000 trades I still have ahead of me.
The more dependent you are on adhering to schedules and budgets, the more you might want to choose a professional who has done this many times and will take the work off your hands. Of course, that costs something. If you can stay relaxed about your own planning mistakes (remember, you are an amateur!), then you might be the type for doing it yourself.
SvenF86 schrieb:
Recently, many friends and colleagues have advised me to carry out the planning (and ultimately also the inspections) with an architect, while individually contracting all trades myself during construction. The cost savings would be at least €50,000. Here I have to quote the "carrot": "No way, little Peter!" I find this combination a rather strange piece of advice—I’ve never heard it before. I often hear from first-time builders who consider themselves gifted bargain hunters or shopping geniuses—but never combined with the smart advice to let the architect also manage the construction. Amateur self-contracting of individual trades is Russian roulette. To have the architect take a break precisely during phases 6 and 7 of the service (construction supervision and project completion) is advice so cruel that I would lack the sadism to give it even to my worst enemy: I know too much about the pitfalls of tendering to recommend that. On the other hand, I can easily imagine that "simple minds" might consider this brilliant. The greatest cost savings are, on the contrary, buried precisely in handing over the tendering and contract preparation to professionals (and the turbo button for that is discipline regarding bay windows, corner windows, giant tiles, and the like).
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B
Benutzer2009 Mar 2022 08:45Hehe – An IT specialist with two left hands trying to manage a house build.
If you want to build a custom home, then hire an architect (although that can easily cost around €40,000 for all phases of service). By the way, the architect’s fee already makes up a large part of the general contractor’s profit, since the contractor doesn’t need an architect and offers a standard model house.
If you want to take on tasks like construction management yourself, you should ask yourself whether you are technically skilled enough to spot any shoddy work and coordinate the interfaces between the various trades.
If you can handle the tendering process—that is, calculate quantities and qualities precisely—go for it. Even many trained architects struggle with that.
By the way, architect-designed homes are often more expensive than off-the-shelf houses. This is because it becomes a bespoke product for you, including all (expensive) special requests and adaptations that aren’t possible with a general contractor’s standard package.
If you want to build a custom home, then hire an architect (although that can easily cost around €40,000 for all phases of service). By the way, the architect’s fee already makes up a large part of the general contractor’s profit, since the contractor doesn’t need an architect and offers a standard model house.
If you want to take on tasks like construction management yourself, you should ask yourself whether you are technically skilled enough to spot any shoddy work and coordinate the interfaces between the various trades.
If you can handle the tendering process—that is, calculate quantities and qualities precisely—go for it. Even many trained architects struggle with that.
By the way, architect-designed homes are often more expensive than off-the-shelf houses. This is because it becomes a bespoke product for you, including all (expensive) special requests and adaptations that aren’t possible with a general contractor’s standard package.
Thank you for the well-intentioned advice. I have already received similar feedback from various sources. I am leaning towards dismissing the idea of complete individual contracting.
However, I have now heard about some interesting alternative approaches. For example, I was advised to plan with the architect first (e.g., design phases 1-3) and then use the completed plans to approach different general contractors / main contractors to request bids. This way, I would receive comparable offers and have a strong negotiating position. But do all general contractors / main contractors go along with this, or do they usually insist on their standard house designs? And is the architect’s paid planning service credited towards the contract?
With the general contractor / main contractor, it might also be possible to agree that only the shell construction is done by them (e.g., up to and including the roof covering) and I would carry out the rest through individual contracts myself, if that makes sense in terms of cost and effort…
What is the opinion on this approach, and roughly where would I stand in terms of price compared with a standard house model (e.g., Viebrockhaus, Town & Country, etc.)?
However, I have now heard about some interesting alternative approaches. For example, I was advised to plan with the architect first (e.g., design phases 1-3) and then use the completed plans to approach different general contractors / main contractors to request bids. This way, I would receive comparable offers and have a strong negotiating position. But do all general contractors / main contractors go along with this, or do they usually insist on their standard house designs? And is the architect’s paid planning service credited towards the contract?
With the general contractor / main contractor, it might also be possible to agree that only the shell construction is done by them (e.g., up to and including the roof covering) and I would carry out the rest through individual contracts myself, if that makes sense in terms of cost and effort…
What is the opinion on this approach, and roughly where would I stand in terms of price compared with a standard house model (e.g., Viebrockhaus, Town & Country, etc.)?
B
Benutzer2009 Mar 2022 09:15SvenF86 schrieb:
I have now heard about some interesting alternative approaches. For example, I was advised to plan with the architect first (e.g., design phases 1-3) and then present the completed plans to various general contractors (GCs) or building contractors (BCs) to obtain offers. This way, I would receive comparable bids and have a strong negotiating position. But: do all GCs/BCs agree to this, or do they usually insist on their standard house designs? And is the architect’s paid planning service credited in this case?
With the GC/BC, it could also be arranged that, for example, only the shell construction is done (e.g., up to and including roof covering) and I complete the rest through separate contracts, provided this makes sense cost- and effort-wise… Everything is possible. But design phases 1-3 are not enough. You should rather include phases 1-4 (5) and approach the GC with a finished product. However, you will need to spend at least a few thousand euros on a construction manager/site supervisor/independent expert to oversee the project.
And if the construction company is already doing the shell including the roof, it’s almost not worth subcontracting the rest yourself. This approach is more common if you plan to do the interior finishes yourself, perhaps because you have an electrician or plumber in the family, are installing underfloor heating on your own, and can lay tiles yourself, for example.
P.S. If you only take design phases 1-3 to different companies, it’s like going to various car dealers and saying, "I need a car about 4.80 m (15 ft 9 in) long, 4 doors, petrol engine, and four tires." Then you’ll be offered anything from a fully loaded luxury model to a basic economy car. Often, very low initial prices are quoted for such inquiries, but they turn out to be expensive in the end due to numerous additional charges (since you didn’t specify concrete details).