Hello everyone,
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
W
WilderSueden9 Feb 2022 08:57Are you planning your budget with or without the land? Here in the south, the price per square meter is around 2500-3000€ (about 270-320 USD), excluding additional costs such as external landscaping, kitchen, etc. This price covers only the house on a slab foundation.
I would recommend creating a detailed calculation. What does the house cost from supplier X, and what from supplier Y? What additional work do I need to do with X to have the same scope as Y’s offer? What are the costs for the kitchen, paving, utility connections, and so on? Then add everything up. This way, you can see how much budget is actually left.
I would recommend creating a detailed calculation. What does the house cost from supplier X, and what from supplier Y? What additional work do I need to do with X to have the same scope as Y’s offer? What are the costs for the kitchen, paving, utility connections, and so on? Then add everything up. This way, you can see how much budget is actually left.
B
blubbernase9 Feb 2022 09:13SandyBlack schrieb:
Is it unlikely to encounter a skilled, qualified architect at a prefab home provider?It’s not necessarily a matter of capability, but rather that the architect simply won’t have the time or opportunity to provide you with comprehensive advice. Some do put in more effort, probably out of professional pride, but based on our experience and reports from supplier groups on social networks, the architect’s role is often a point of contention.P
Pinkiponk9 Feb 2022 10:41SandyBlack schrieb:
@Pinkiponk We have at least spoken with some providers who did not rule it out. One even gave us the complete customization catalog including prices in advance. Unfortunately, that is really the absolute exception.Great, that’s exactly what I hoped for in our building project, but unfortunately, no other provider has given me that. This provider would be my favorite if there are no significant restrictions. I wonder who benefits from keeping customers in the dark like this. Providers should also be interested in making comparisons easier so they can highlight their specific quality as a selling point. I wish homebuyers could, like when buying a car, compile everything online, see the price, and then order the house. I have no idea why this isn’t done or why it wouldn’t be done. Just click, click, click, with the relevant information for each option, which you could then research further if interested. For example, with something like a circulation pipe, you’d have to look it up anyway.S
SandyBlack9 Feb 2022 14:10@WilderSueden The specified budget is only for the house and auxiliary costs. But if the additional construction costs are usually not included in the price per square meter, I can better understand our architect’s statement.
We are currently working on the calculation, but we still need some patience. The first offers with actual prices will probably come in about 3 weeks.
@blubbernase Did you ultimately decide on a prefabricated house supplier? Or are you building with an architect? What was the deciding factor for you?
@Pinkiponk The downside is that the supplier charges quite a bit and is therefore more in the higher price range. Unfortunately, they only offer catalogue homes. As long as you only want to make interior changes, that’s fine, but if you want to make changes to the width or length because no floor plan really fits the plot, it gets expensive very quickly. However, they have a pretty good reputation when it comes to construction.
We are currently working on the calculation, but we still need some patience. The first offers with actual prices will probably come in about 3 weeks.
@blubbernase Did you ultimately decide on a prefabricated house supplier? Or are you building with an architect? What was the deciding factor for you?
@Pinkiponk The downside is that the supplier charges quite a bit and is therefore more in the higher price range. Unfortunately, they only offer catalogue homes. As long as you only want to make interior changes, that’s fine, but if you want to make changes to the width or length because no floor plan really fits the plot, it gets expensive very quickly. However, they have a pretty good reputation when it comes to construction.
SandyBlack schrieb:
And if you’re already going up to design phase 6, wouldn’t it be pointless not to also commission phases 7 and 8?
But if we do actually go the full way with the architect, then we risk prices suddenly escalating again. How do you see that?
Would you counteract this by awarding the general contractor contract in phase 7 and negotiating a price guarantee from then on? Yes, I generally recommend getting the concept, execution planning, tendering, and construction supervision all from the same source. Tendering, of course, is not just about materials, quantities, and volumes, but also about scheduling windows and price lock periods. I don’t know who keeps feeding homeowners the nonsense that price guarantees are only available from general contractors.
SandyBlack schrieb:
What surprises me is that in our initial meeting with the architect mentioned, the consensus was that we could build a house of about 140 m² (without a basement) for around 600,000 euros. But in pre-consultations with prefab home suppliers, they said you can get 170 to 180 m² without a basement as well. There’s no surprise there—apples and oranges are not the same size: the architect means the total cost, while the turnkey supplier (regardless of the building method) only means the money you’re willing to give them (as if someone is secretly slipping you cash for the owner’s responsibilities). Also, these are pre-contract promises like those from used car salesmen—you shouldn’t trust them too much. They don’t care whether you have to sell the house later to pay for it. They’ve often learned that the sweetest promises win the contract. They don’t use your bathroom themselves, so it doesn’t bother them if you downgrade the tiles to save your budget.
SandyBlack schrieb:
Is it rather unlikely to find a good, qualified architect at a prefab home supplier? 😉
Does that mean that the only option is to provide the desired floor plan upfront with prefab home suppliers, so you can at least roughly compare the footprint of the houses? As @blubbernase already explained in post #46, it’s possible to be referred to a fully qualified architect by the home manufacturer. You can get a floor plan from any manufacturer similar to those of its competitors (or even from a competitor’s catalog), but then every wall and door might be shifted by about ten centimeters (4 inches) left or right because otherwise a “post” would be in the way in their system. The overall external dimensions can also vary by up to half a meter (1.6 feet) when translating a plan from one manufacturer to another.
SandyBlack schrieb:
We were considering commissioning phases 1 to 4 and then going to the prefab home suppliers with the results. Or did you mean “botched self-made request for proposals” by that? By “botched self-made requests for proposals,” I mean chasing after the apparently cheapest offer with completely imprecise and from a professional perspective highly risky inquiries. If you mean turnkey general contractor offers from prefab suppliers including masonry types, I have said several times that based on approved plans, you cannot build a house, but only are allowed to build it. If you mean prefab timber frame panel house manufacturers, then phases 1 to 4 are already too far—you’re better off going to them after phase 2 and working with your architect while the manufacturer continues preparing the scope of work.
Pinkiponk schrieb:
I wish that homebuyers could, like when buying a car, put everything together online, see the price, and just order the house. No idea why that’s not done or why it shouldn’t be. Just click, click, click, This transfer of the new car configurator would be the perfect way to a “ready-made kit for Tuscan-style homes and other McMansion horrors.” The software development costs alone to make sure you cannot combine moss-green velour carpets with chocolate-brown leather steering wheels are only recoverable at very high production volumes—so basically, the Golf has to subsidize the A8.
SandyBlack schrieb:
As long as you only want to make interior changes, that’s fine, but if you want to change the width or length, it quickly gets very expensive. For that, check out “Changing the size of a floor plan,” where I have explained this in detail.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I would like to politely ask the group why the architect is supposed to carry out separate contracting?
Surely this can be done independently. The architect prepares the project and, as the authorized party for building submission, submits the documents to the building authority. After that, the client receives the building permit / planning permission and can proceed as they wish.
Then you approach the civil engineer, the structural builder, the carpenter, and the roofer.
Surely this can be done independently. The architect prepares the project and, as the authorized party for building submission, submits the documents to the building authority. After that, the client receives the building permit / planning permission and can proceed as they wish.
Then you approach the civil engineer, the structural builder, the carpenter, and the roofer.
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