Hello everyone,
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
maybe this thread is a bit early since we don’t have a planned floor plan yet. But we would still appreciate your advice. First of all, because this is probably the most important information: We are planning with a budget of 600,000 euros for the house plus additional building-related costs. We have received approval to purchase the plot shown here. We will sign the purchase contract at the end of next week. Now to our problem:
We are very uncertain about which is the better decision for our plot: a (partial) basement with a smaller floor plan (about 130 – 140 m² (1400 – 1500 sq ft)) (Option A), or a slab foundation with a slightly larger floor plan (about 170 m² (1800 sq ft)) (Option B).
I will list the pros and cons as we see them for each option.
Option A:
+ Utility room in the basement frees up space on the ground floor; no noise issues
+ More usable space overall
+ Hobby room can also be used flexibly for gatherings
+ Storage space!
+ Possibility of a double parking space
- Expensive (a full basement is probably unrealistic with our budget; is a partial basement more sensible?)
- Less space on the ground and upper floors
Option B:
+ More living space on the ground and upper floors
+ High potential for cost savings!
+ Possible to use the attic for storage?
- Is there still enough space for a double parking space?
- Possible issues with the plot ratio? If we understand correctly, the footprint of the house may be limited to 143 m² (1540 sq ft) plus 70 m² (750 sq ft) for driveway, garage, etc. My feeling is that the developed area might easily be underestimated and reach the limit quickly.
We would be interested in your opinion on how you would build on this plot. I have made a very rough sketch of how we imagine the orientation of the house and placement of parking spaces, etc. I have also attached the site plan and development plan. The questionnaire is mostly filled out, but a “final” floor plan is still missing, as mentioned. This will also largely depend on the question of whether to have a basement or not.
I hope I haven’t forgotten anything...
Best regards
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 477 m² (5130 sq ft)
Slope Minimal
Plot ratio (ground coverage ratio) 0.3
Floor area ratio 0.8
Building envelope, building line, boundary 14 x 14 meters (see image)
Edge development see image
Number of parking spaces unknown
Building height up to 2 full stories
Roof type Hip roof or gable roof 30-40 degrees
Architectural style unknown
Orientation unknown
Maximum height / limits unknown
Other requirements unknown
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, Roof type Gable or hip roof (open to either)
Basement, number of floors Basement yes/no is the big question. 1.5 – 2 full stories
Number of occupants, ages 2 adults (32 and 33), 1 child (1), 1 more child planned
Room requirements on ground and upper floors Utility room, guest toilet with shower, guest room, study (a study nook might also be sufficient), 2 children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom
Office: family use or home office? Both
Overnight guests per year Parents-in-law should be able to stay regularly (about once a month)
Open or closed layout Open kitchen / living / dining area
Conservative or modern design Exterior should be clean and simple – relatively straightforward
Open kitchen, kitchen island Yes, at least a peninsula
Number of dining places in the kitchen No dining space needed in the kitchen; the dining room should have space for a large table
Fireplace If budget allows; not mandatory
Music / sound wall 11.2.4 sound system + TV to be integrated into the study (or guest room)
Balcony, roof terrace Not necessary
Garage, carport Double carport or double garage would be nice if space allows; otherwise 2 parking spaces in tandem
Utility garden, greenhouse Not planned
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or rejected Smart home with KNX (or Loxone); controlled ventilation system, photovoltaic system (+ possibly battery storage), air-to-water heat pump
House Design
Who did the planning:
- Planner from a construction company
- Architect
- Do-it-yourself
What do you especially like? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Personal budget limit for the house, including equipment:
Preferred heating technology: Air-to-water heat pump + photovoltaic system (+ possibly small battery storage)
If you have to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without:
- cannot do without:
WilderSueden schrieb:
It would probably have been different with a prefabricated house supplier.Would it? What makes you so certain about that?
WilderSueden schrieb:
For me, it was also important that the general contractor takes care of almost everything: earthworks, energy consultant, architectural services, temporary power supply.Opinions on this can differ. For example, it was more important to me—and turned out to be an advantage later on—to have an independent civil engineer for the earthworks. Temporary power supply...? Anyone can organize that themselves. In my case, I even saved 800 EUR by simply using the neighbor’s temporary power connection. Energy consultation and architectural services are usually included anyway with most large prefabricated house suppliers I know.
Depending on who you ask or where you look, the difference between a general contractor (GC) and a construction manager (CM) varies.
Either: The GC directly manages at least one trade with their own craftsmen, while the other trades are subcontracted, whereas the CM mainly oversees subcontracting and primarily handles construction management, coordination, and planning.
Or: The GC carries out work based on a provided plan, while the CM also takes on the planning.
In my usage, I follow the first definition, since otherwise almost all GCs would be CMs, which leaves too little distinction for me.
Additionally, I find some personal satisfaction in knowing my CM operates within a smaller *community* since it probably consists of only two or three people. That way, it’s easier to criticize them without overgeneralizing.
I should add: The CM referred to themselves as a developer, even though they definitely built on my property. A freelance worker of the CM referred to “bauseits” meaning the CM’s side. Both are clear signs to me that the main expertise of this CM is not in construction. In that sense, my opinion about CMs might be biased and does not necessarily reflect the average competence of industry professionals in this field.
Either: The GC directly manages at least one trade with their own craftsmen, while the other trades are subcontracted, whereas the CM mainly oversees subcontracting and primarily handles construction management, coordination, and planning.
Or: The GC carries out work based on a provided plan, while the CM also takes on the planning.
In my usage, I follow the first definition, since otherwise almost all GCs would be CMs, which leaves too little distinction for me.
Additionally, I find some personal satisfaction in knowing my CM operates within a smaller *community* since it probably consists of only two or three people. That way, it’s easier to criticize them without overgeneralizing.
I should add: The CM referred to themselves as a developer, even though they definitely built on my property. A freelance worker of the CM referred to “bauseits” meaning the CM’s side. Both are clear signs to me that the main expertise of this CM is not in construction. In that sense, my opinion about CMs might be biased and does not necessarily reflect the average competence of industry professionals in this field.
W
WilderSueden8 Feb 2022 10:58netuser schrieb:
Energy consulting and architectural services are included as standard with most major prefabricated house providers I know. Both Schwörerhaus and Weberhaus naturally list the architect as being provided by the builder.
Certainly, you can save some money if you contract these services yourself. However, you then have to manage everything yourself. As the client, you are responsible, for example, that the surveyor arrives at the construction site at the right time.
netuser schrieb:
Would have? How do you come to this "more certain" assumption? On one hand, prices for discounted houses have practically exploded. A 25% increase is quite common.
On the other hand, I remember discussing this with Weberhaus because our site development was still in progress. The representative mentioned a fixed-price extension of, I believe, 1% per month. After one month, this would have already exceeded the price from my general contractor. Even if it was only 0.5%, more than €1500 comes up quickly.
S
SandyBlack8 Feb 2022 14:03We have not contacted Schwörerhaus or Weberhaus because both lack the installation layer we require.
For all providers we have already met with, the additional construction costs (earthworks, temporary power supply, etc.) were not included, but the architectural services were.
The prefab home expert, for example, also suggests hiring an independent architect for the house design and then taking that result to the general contractor. However, this might also be related to their business model.
@Tolentino Thanks! I can clearly understand the first explanation. Intuitively, I prefer a general contractor. I just imagine managing subcontractors would be difficult, as you probably wouldn’t have much influence over the choice of subcontractors.
For all providers we have already met with, the additional construction costs (earthworks, temporary power supply, etc.) were not included, but the architectural services were.
The prefab home expert, for example, also suggests hiring an independent architect for the house design and then taking that result to the general contractor. However, this might also be related to their business model.
@Tolentino Thanks! I can clearly understand the first explanation. Intuitively, I prefer a general contractor. I just imagine managing subcontractors would be difficult, as you probably wouldn’t have much influence over the choice of subcontractors.
SandyBlack schrieb:
If you want a basement and the prefab home provider doesn’t offer it – would that be a deal breaker when choosing a provider?From my perspective, definitely yes. This applies just as much for slab-on-grade foundations as for basements: always include it in the scope of responsibility of the house supplier.SandyBlack schrieb:
We have already talked to an architect who was recommended to us several times and is known for being very accurate with his cost estimates.Haha, basically @Gerddieter approved ;-)Then go with him, it doesn’t get better than that!
(if he’s not great at design, those pale purple floor plans are back again).
SandyBlack schrieb:
We understand that upgrading packages can be a pitfall,“Upgrades” and “change orders” naturally only exist where the general contractor (GC) regularly works from their own scope of work description. That excludes (regardless of construction method) all major providers. But when working with an architect, it makes sense to always have your own scope of services.SandyBlack schrieb:
We make sure that the price guarantee lasts longer than the construction period warranty.That applies to every building method – watch out for the @Pinkiponk effect ;-)WilderSueden schrieb:
2. With separate contracts: here (the architect) creates a tender according to the wishes and then awards the individual trades to the contractors with the best offer.Two essentials on that: 1. a tender with individual lots does not exclude GC offers. 2. what the best offer is can only be determined with a professionally prepared tender – proper quantity surveys and measurements are key.WilderSueden schrieb:
Prefab manufacturers are really just a special type of general contractor; the basic principle is the same in solid construction. The crucial point is that, on one hand, the usual standard matches your desired standard, and on the other hand, that you have very few upgrades later on. These tend to be rather expensive with GCs. [...]
Long story short, just because something says “prefab” doesn’t mean it actually is. And a price guarantee always depends on what exactly is included.Paste this into the poetry album right away!SandyBlack schrieb:
Sorry, I actually used prefab provider synonymously with GC 🙂.
So our favorite is to build with a GC / main contractor (what’s the difference?)[...]
Happy to discuss privately if this is not welcome here.
We always appreciate recommendations.Then provide a contact method (mine can be found here by searching for “11ant gmx”). You can lump prefab and turnkey house providers into the same category; the “client-side” delta is basically the same with both. Your preference should ideally be “none” – let the tender results decide.Tolentino schrieb:
The GC handles at least one trade themselves with their own craftsmen.This is fundamentally for regulatory reasons related to trade law. The most common GC type is a builder who is a master in masonry and concrete, but there are also “mailbox GCs” (some calling themselves architect GCs or main contractors – but even there, some have their own crews).SandyBlack schrieb:
We haven’t spoken with Schwörerhaus or Weberhaus, because both lack the installation level.Don’t dream that this means running cables later will be easy!SandyBlack schrieb:
Whereas the prefab expert also recommends having the house design done by an independent architect and then only going to the GC with the result.Within the solid masonry construction scene, that is indeed the best approach. But with “prefab” house providers (regardless of wall material) that’s mostly unrealistic; then the timber frame house only works with the independent carpenter, or the architect must be very familiar with the system.SandyBlack schrieb:
I feel like a GC is better. I imagine separate subcontractors are complicated, since you probably don’t have much say in choosing them.If you want to choose the actual contractors yourself, you have to tender individual lots (and then even exclude a GC) – but overall, I don’t see an advantage of this for first-time builders.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
P
Pinkiponk8 Feb 2022 15:48SandyBlack schrieb:
But as I said – the idea of solid construction is not completely off the table. There are also prefab home providers that offer solid construction.
I would like to point out, even though it might be difficult to enforce nowadays, to look for a company that offers pre-selection of materials and finishes. The phrase "We reserve the right to make changes to ..." appears in every building contract description we know and gives the builder or supplier significant leeway in their favor.
Furthermore, you cannot rely on something you see in a show home or a builder’s brochure being included in the final build. For example (just one example), we did not get an explicit guarantee for a tiled shower floor; which, in our opinion, is a modern standard, it was shown in the show home, and from our point of view, not an unusual request. Apparently, it is. We expected an extra charge, but not that we simply wouldn’t get it because "We don’t do that." Well, we didn’t get a tiled shower floor but have to use a shower tray instead… I don’t want to sound bitter, but by now I’m just glad the house is warm, has running water, and a place to cook, sleep, and shower. ;-) Fortunately, it was never about the house itself for us but about moving to a region we love. 🙂
The difficulty probably is that there are no (?) providers offering a pre-contract materials and finishes selection.
Similar topics