ᐅ Floor plan for a 200 m² hillside house with a granny flat / secondary unit
Created on: 25 Jan 2022 11:00
M
moooooo32
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot Size: 388sqm (4179 sqft)
Slope: Yes, facing northwest
Site Coverage Ratio, Floor Area Ratio: The architect has not provided details yet; we are building according to Paragraph 34
Building Envelope, Building Line and Boundary: Maximum house width 8.80m (29 ft), former house length of existing building 14m (46 ft)
Number of Parking Spaces:
Number of Floors:
Roof Style: Gable roof
Orientation: According to the slope, ridge also facing northwest
Client Requirements
Architectural Style, Roof Type, Building Type: Gable roof
Basement, Number of Floors: 2 levels,[/I]5 plus attic space
Number of Occupants, Ages: 5 persons (family members aged 32, 32, 5, and 2) plus 1 person (85) in an apartment unit
Space Requirements on Ground Floor, Upper Floor: Apartment approximately 50sqm (538 sqft), remainder about 150sqm (1615 sqft)
Office Use: Family use or home office? Office, since the occupants are teachers
Guest Stay Frequency per Year: Varies, but frequently family and friends from across Germany
Open Kitchen, Cooking Island: Open, preferably with a cooking island but not essential
Number of Dining Seats: 6-8
Fireplace: Not planned initially, possibly reconsidered due to KFW funding changes
Balcony, Roof Terrace: Potentially a small “roof terrace” above the apartment terrace would be nice, but not planned due to budget (great view)
Garage, Carport: There is an existing garage (built 1995) in an inconvenient location, which will remain for now
Additional Wishes / Special Features / Daily Routine, including reasons for decisions
The plot is heavily built up, so we have tried to identify spots with good views, which involved a lot of planning on my part. Good views are towards northeast and west
House Design
Who designed the plans:
Architect and do-it-yourself: Mainly my own design; the architect made changes, some of which we did not like (e.g., U-shaped staircase, arrangement of rooms difficult), so currently it is essentially a drawing based on my drafts with useful improvements from the architect
What do you particularly like? Why?
Staircase, integration of WC on the upper floor, loft door to the open space as a connection to the “stairwell.”
Entrance to the utility room to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, shifting the wall of the apartment unit accordingly.
Children’s rooms are the same size, space-saving staircase to the attic (amazing view from there), use of attic as playroom and possibly guest accommodation.
Living room ceiling height increased to 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) planned on the upper floor.
What do you dislike? Why?
Entrance to the utility room still needs to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, requiring adjustment to the apartment’s wall.
Windows generally need revision; in the living room facing west, possibly an “imitation corner window” (with support pillar) to maximize the view.
The kitchen window facing northeast should definitely be a seating window.
Price Estimate According to Architect/Planner:
Including groundwork, €540,000 (approximately $600,000), but originally planned with KFW 55 energy standard, which we missed submitting on time. Now we need to reconsider, as we actually wanted KFW 40 standard for the two residential units. 😡
Personal Price Limit for the House, Including Fixtures:
€540,000 would be ideal; preliminary estimates from contractors roughly match this.
Preferred Heating Technology: Planned heat pump with underfloor heating
If you have to give up on which details / expansions
-could you give up:[/I]
Attic later, glass door/loft door to living room later, no planned lift-and-slide doors or other fancy features
-cannot give up:
Wooden flooring, sufficient windows, wheelchair accessibility on the ground floor
Why is the design the way it is now?
Long iteration process on my part, partly inspired by Pinterest, but overall the external envelope is quite predetermined
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Is there anything that doesn’t work? Have we missed anything? How about the window layout (still to be revised)? Does it make sense as the architect suggested? We even want to remove some windows (e.g., in the bedroom).
Plot Size: 388sqm (4179 sqft)
Slope: Yes, facing northwest
Site Coverage Ratio, Floor Area Ratio: The architect has not provided details yet; we are building according to Paragraph 34
Building Envelope, Building Line and Boundary: Maximum house width 8.80m (29 ft), former house length of existing building 14m (46 ft)
Number of Parking Spaces:
Number of Floors:
Roof Style: Gable roof
Orientation: According to the slope, ridge also facing northwest
Client Requirements
Architectural Style, Roof Type, Building Type: Gable roof
Basement, Number of Floors: 2 levels,[/I]5 plus attic space
Number of Occupants, Ages: 5 persons (family members aged 32, 32, 5, and 2) plus 1 person (85) in an apartment unit
Space Requirements on Ground Floor, Upper Floor: Apartment approximately 50sqm (538 sqft), remainder about 150sqm (1615 sqft)
Office Use: Family use or home office? Office, since the occupants are teachers
Guest Stay Frequency per Year: Varies, but frequently family and friends from across Germany
Open Kitchen, Cooking Island: Open, preferably with a cooking island but not essential
Number of Dining Seats: 6-8
Fireplace: Not planned initially, possibly reconsidered due to KFW funding changes
Balcony, Roof Terrace: Potentially a small “roof terrace” above the apartment terrace would be nice, but not planned due to budget (great view)
Garage, Carport: There is an existing garage (built 1995) in an inconvenient location, which will remain for now
Additional Wishes / Special Features / Daily Routine, including reasons for decisions
The plot is heavily built up, so we have tried to identify spots with good views, which involved a lot of planning on my part. Good views are towards northeast and west
House Design
Who designed the plans:
Architect and do-it-yourself: Mainly my own design; the architect made changes, some of which we did not like (e.g., U-shaped staircase, arrangement of rooms difficult), so currently it is essentially a drawing based on my drafts with useful improvements from the architect
What do you particularly like? Why?
Staircase, integration of WC on the upper floor, loft door to the open space as a connection to the “stairwell.”
Entrance to the utility room to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, shifting the wall of the apartment unit accordingly.
Children’s rooms are the same size, space-saving staircase to the attic (amazing view from there), use of attic as playroom and possibly guest accommodation.
Living room ceiling height increased to 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) planned on the upper floor.
What do you dislike? Why?
Entrance to the utility room still needs to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, requiring adjustment to the apartment’s wall.
Windows generally need revision; in the living room facing west, possibly an “imitation corner window” (with support pillar) to maximize the view.
The kitchen window facing northeast should definitely be a seating window.
Price Estimate According to Architect/Planner:
Including groundwork, €540,000 (approximately $600,000), but originally planned with KFW 55 energy standard, which we missed submitting on time. Now we need to reconsider, as we actually wanted KFW 40 standard for the two residential units. 😡
Personal Price Limit for the House, Including Fixtures:
€540,000 would be ideal; preliminary estimates from contractors roughly match this.
Preferred Heating Technology: Planned heat pump with underfloor heating
If you have to give up on which details / expansions
-could you give up:[/I]
Attic later, glass door/loft door to living room later, no planned lift-and-slide doors or other fancy features
-cannot give up:
Wooden flooring, sufficient windows, wheelchair accessibility on the ground floor
Why is the design the way it is now?
Long iteration process on my part, partly inspired by Pinterest, but overall the external envelope is quite predetermined
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Is there anything that doesn’t work? Have we missed anything? How about the window layout (still to be revised)? Does it make sense as the architect suggested? We even want to remove some windows (e.g., in the bedroom).
First of all, I want to say that for someone who is not a professional or an enthusiast in this field, I don’t think the design is that bad.
So please don’t be upset if I have added some red notes to your sketches. Remember, we are on your side! 😉
Basically, you should first clarify what the 2.5-story structure means for you. Usually, the half-story is not considered a full story. A common definition is the two-thirds rule. Accordingly, the roof slopes should result in heights under 2 meters (6.5 feet). These are indicated on floor plans as a 2-meter (6.5-foot) line so you know where you might hit your head. Draw this line into the attic floor or explain which floor you consider the half-story.
The rest here is without any claim to completeness:
For over half a million, these are far too many compromises and little mistakes. It can certainly be done better.
So please don’t be upset if I have added some red notes to your sketches. Remember, we are on your side! 😉
Basically, you should first clarify what the 2.5-story structure means for you. Usually, the half-story is not considered a full story. A common definition is the two-thirds rule. Accordingly, the roof slopes should result in heights under 2 meters (6.5 feet). These are indicated on floor plans as a 2-meter (6.5-foot) line so you know where you might hit your head. Draw this line into the attic floor or explain which floor you consider the half-story.
The rest here is without any claim to completeness:
For over half a million, these are far too many compromises and little mistakes. It can certainly be done better.
M
moooooo322 Feb 2022 21:40matte1987 schrieb:
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I find having the ensuite bathroom in the granny flat quite unfortunate.
What happens if the apartment is rented out to someone else in the future?
For a two-room apartment of this size, I would prefer the toilet to be accessible from the hallway so that visitors don’t have to go through the bedroom.
Ideally, the bedroom should also be big enough to comfortably fit a double bed without major compromises.
I feel the space in front of the stairs in the open living area is somewhat wasted when I look at the size of the toilet and the “room.”
Upstairs, I would personally give the children more space.
Make the bedroom smaller, but of course, opinions vary there... 😉 Yes, I mentioned that thought above as well. However, it would be quite easy to add a small corridor with drywall; I attached a quick sketch. Because of the planned accessibility, I would initially avoid that. My grandmother mostly only receives people she “has always known” and is very tidy. The wall could still be moved a bit further down. The bed shown so far is 120cm by 220cm (47 inches by 87 inches); now I tried with 180cm by 210cm (71 inches by 83 inches).
What exactly do you mean about the space in front of the stairs? The shelf niche?
I haven’t added a partition wall upstairs yet because it could be rearranged later. The kids could also use the attic later and are encouraged to spend a lot of time outdoors. Also, the bedroom is in the northwest and the children’s room in the southeast, which I think works quite well, right?
askforafriend2 Feb 2022 21:45I actually think the floor plan is pretty cool. Some improvements have already been mentioned.
Regarding the price: Expect around 3,000 euros per square meter without fixtures and landscaping. We are managing this with about 9x12m (30x40 feet) on a south-facing slope, with 3 full floors.
So for you, that would be 200 x 3,000 = 600,000. If you skip a lot of extras, you might get down to around 570,000 without the kitchen, etc. It will definitely be very tight!
Regarding the price: Expect around 3,000 euros per square meter without fixtures and landscaping. We are managing this with about 9x12m (30x40 feet) on a south-facing slope, with 3 full floors.
So for you, that would be 200 x 3,000 = 600,000. If you skip a lot of extras, you might get down to around 570,000 without the kitchen, etc. It will definitely be very tight!
M
moooooo322 Feb 2022 22:17K a t j a schrieb:
First of all, I want to say that I don’t think the design is that bad for someone who is not a professional or a hobbyist in this field.
So please don’t be upset if I added some red notes on your sketches. Don’t forget, we are on your side! 😉
Basically, you should clarify what the 2.5-story structure means for you. Usually, the half story is not considered a full floor. A common definition is the two-thirds rule. Accordingly, roof slopes with less than 2 meters (6.5 feet) height would result. These are shown in floor plans as a 2-meter (6.5 feet) line so you know where you might bump your head. Draw this line into the attic floor or explain which level you consider the half story.
The rest here without any claim to completeness:
For more than half a million, that’s way too many compromises and small errors. It can definitely be done better. The design in this form is not entirely ours; the initial design (in red) was drawn by the architect (but based on my template), I just tried to replicate it. No one is drawing at the office right now due to quarantine shortage.
Thanks for your comments; I appreciate the effort and will respond to them one by one.
Ground floor
The staircase is from the architect, and the soffit was accepted to maintain head clearance. Here it’s “only” two steps, so the head clearance should be above 2 meters (6.5 feet), as far as I know. But earlier the kitchen line was planned here, so maybe I’m wrong about the 2 meters (6.5 feet)?
The bathroom door must open outwards in an accessible bathroom, in case someone needs to be rescued, I believe. But the hinge placement is indeed incorrect. I didn’t focus on such details or exact window positions yet; it was more about approximate dimensions first.
The entrance should not be there because we want our own entrance area, and otherwise I’d constantly have half my family in the house. We are not the caregivers. If the entrance were there, we’d also have to go up the stairs and have a cloakroom there, etc. But likely a lintel will be installed there in case it’s ever needed.
What would be the alternative to a vestibule, a storage area for possibly a walker? Having it directly in the living room is also not great, right?
Upper floor
I worked a lot on the room layout because with this small plot we really wanted to take advantage of the views. So a (self-built) window seat is definitely planned there. An alternative to the kitchen island would be a double-row kitchen, but then it’s quite wide, right? I don’t imagine the island is that terrible to work with though.
The table could also be rotated. This is more the extended version at 2.4 meters (8 feet). But then the space in front of the door would be wasted. How do you determine it will feel uncomfortable? The window to the left of the table is not a patio door, so it stays closed. Therefore, I think you can sit relatively close. Between the door and the chairs there is 1.1–1.2 meters (3.6–4 feet), doesn’t that suffice?
The door to the open space is actually meant to be double doors.
Yes, the restroom is tiny. We haven’t found a good solution for that yet.
Attic floor
The knee wall is planned with 1.25 meters (4 feet), the 2-meter (6.5 feet) line is shown, see red plans 🙂 I also find the bedroom huge 🙁 Maybe my measurements are somehow off. Or the stairs are positioned too far upwards overall.
M
moooooo322 Feb 2022 22:20askforafriend schrieb:
I actually find the floor plan quite nice. Some improvements have already been mentioned.
Regarding the price: You can expect about 3,000 euros per square meter without fittings and landscaping. We manage this with approximately 9x12m (30x39 feet) on a south-facing slope, with three full floors.
So for you, that would be 200 x 3,000 = 600k. If you skip a lot of extras, you might get down to around 570k without kitchen, etc. It will definitely be tight! Where are you building? I assume southern Germany?
- Living area: Some time ago, we looked at a house where the kitchen, dining area, and living room were arranged in an L-shape with a width of just over 3m (10 feet), and I didn’t find the flow very pleasant.
- Guest toilet: I agree, it’s very small and lacks natural light.
- Did I overlook the walk-in closet?
- The second staircase on the upper floor leads to the attic—what is the intended use for this space later on, and have you checked the available ceiling heights? According to the plan, the clear height at the start of the stairs would be between 1.5 and 2m (5 to 6.5 feet), which seems almost impossible for everyday use.
Overall, especially with a tight budget, I would try to stack the bathrooms and kitchen vertically as much as possible to avoid bulkheads and long plumbing runs.
Regarding the kitchen dimensions, I would place tall cabinets on the left side of the plan (3.3m / 10.8 feet), removing the window on that side and orienting it horizontally (like the current cabinet row). In front of this, a 3 x 1.2m (10 x 4 feet) island as listed in the options should provide more storage while keeping practical walking distances.
- In the original post, it was mentioned that you don’t want a spiral staircase—what alternative shape are you considering? Straight, with a landing?
- Do you have the option to install dormer windows?
- Guest toilet: I agree, it’s very small and lacks natural light.
- Did I overlook the walk-in closet?
- The second staircase on the upper floor leads to the attic—what is the intended use for this space later on, and have you checked the available ceiling heights? According to the plan, the clear height at the start of the stairs would be between 1.5 and 2m (5 to 6.5 feet), which seems almost impossible for everyday use.
Overall, especially with a tight budget, I would try to stack the bathrooms and kitchen vertically as much as possible to avoid bulkheads and long plumbing runs.
Regarding the kitchen dimensions, I would place tall cabinets on the left side of the plan (3.3m / 10.8 feet), removing the window on that side and orienting it horizontally (like the current cabinet row). In front of this, a 3 x 1.2m (10 x 4 feet) island as listed in the options should provide more storage while keeping practical walking distances.
- In the original post, it was mentioned that you don’t want a spiral staircase—what alternative shape are you considering? Straight, with a landing?
- Do you have the option to install dormer windows?
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