ᐅ Demolition of 270-Year-Old House and Construction of a Modern Multi-Use Building
Created on: 17 Nov 2021 10:10
I
i_b_n_a_n
To bring some truly relevant content back into the BUILDForum... 😉
Here are my initial unstructured thoughts on my current construction project.
I am planning to demolish my old house 😱
The reason: We are desperately looking for office space nearby, which is simply not available. Further development areas in the vicinity are only expected in a few years, and the chance of getting anything there will be very low. Renovation is out of the question due to the building's structure. So demolition and new construction.
Thoughts...
Temporary relocation space needed for at least 1 year from the start of construction -> possible with many restrictions
No zoning plan -> so § 34 Building Code applies
Boundary construction (again) on three sides -> absolutely necessary again as the plot is only 298m² (3208 sq ft)!
If boundary construction is not possible -> sale of the property 🙄
Parking requirements not clear yet, but likely achievable (“basement” or underpassable ground floor)
Demolition costs about 25-30K including disposal of oil tanks (initial estimate from architect), we had expected 50K 😀
Plan budget with around 100K buffer 😡
Construction costs are obviously a concern, but it probably won’t get any cheaper.
Slope in the building area approximately 1.5m (5 ft) hence (again) something like a basement / semi-basement -> underpassable ground floor (from the “right”) with parking spaces for car, bike, and garbage bins, also serves as delivery entrance for goods
Extra access road (5-10K?) through existing small flower bed (belongs to municipality) so about 5m (16 ft) paved area + lowered curb etc.
Goal:
Modern multifunctional building with 2 full floors as office space
A recessed top floor as penthouse / apartment or additional office space (for rent)
Our company will move into the ground floor and part of the first floor as tenant; the rest will be rented out (currently and conservatively estimated at a minimum of €9 cold rent for office or apartment)
The building’s footprint will likely be around 13x13m (43x43 ft)
Only on the front side (office entrance) and right side can windows be installed on the ground floor, first floor, and attic.
“Back” and “left” sides of the ground floor probably difficult to impossible for windows due to boundary construction. With a 13x13m footprint that leaves a lot of space without natural light on the ground floor.
Initial discussion with the bank regarding financing went very well. It will probably work (the estimates from both the bank and the architect are around €2500 per m²). For your info: in North Rhine-Westphalia / rural Münsterland
A trusted architect will clarify some framework conditions by the weekend (what can / may be built regarding boundary and height)
Decision must be made by this Christmas... then, if approved, one year for planning & building permit application plus one year construction time...
Sketches coming next week
Alright, your turn 😉
Here are my initial unstructured thoughts on my current construction project.
I am planning to demolish my old house 😱
The reason: We are desperately looking for office space nearby, which is simply not available. Further development areas in the vicinity are only expected in a few years, and the chance of getting anything there will be very low. Renovation is out of the question due to the building's structure. So demolition and new construction.
Thoughts...
Temporary relocation space needed for at least 1 year from the start of construction -> possible with many restrictions
No zoning plan -> so § 34 Building Code applies
Boundary construction (again) on three sides -> absolutely necessary again as the plot is only 298m² (3208 sq ft)!
If boundary construction is not possible -> sale of the property 🙄
Parking requirements not clear yet, but likely achievable (“basement” or underpassable ground floor)
Demolition costs about 25-30K including disposal of oil tanks (initial estimate from architect), we had expected 50K 😀
Plan budget with around 100K buffer 😡
Construction costs are obviously a concern, but it probably won’t get any cheaper.
Slope in the building area approximately 1.5m (5 ft) hence (again) something like a basement / semi-basement -> underpassable ground floor (from the “right”) with parking spaces for car, bike, and garbage bins, also serves as delivery entrance for goods
Extra access road (5-10K?) through existing small flower bed (belongs to municipality) so about 5m (16 ft) paved area + lowered curb etc.
Goal:
Modern multifunctional building with 2 full floors as office space
A recessed top floor as penthouse / apartment or additional office space (for rent)
Our company will move into the ground floor and part of the first floor as tenant; the rest will be rented out (currently and conservatively estimated at a minimum of €9 cold rent for office or apartment)
The building’s footprint will likely be around 13x13m (43x43 ft)
Only on the front side (office entrance) and right side can windows be installed on the ground floor, first floor, and attic.
“Back” and “left” sides of the ground floor probably difficult to impossible for windows due to boundary construction. With a 13x13m footprint that leaves a lot of space without natural light on the ground floor.
Initial discussion with the bank regarding financing went very well. It will probably work (the estimates from both the bank and the architect are around €2500 per m²). For your info: in North Rhine-Westphalia / rural Münsterland
A trusted architect will clarify some framework conditions by the weekend (what can / may be built regarding boundary and height)
Decision must be made by this Christmas... then, if approved, one year for planning & building permit application plus one year construction time...
Sketches coming next week
Alright, your turn 😉
In der Ruine22 Nov 2021 09:01@i_b_n_a_n
Thanks for the photos.
Thanks for the photos.
Does anyone have current figures regarding construction costs for an office building? I hear one architect quoting 2500€ per m² (about $280 per ft²), while the MEP planner claims a maximum of 2000€ per m² (about $185 per ft²). For around 330 m² (3550 ft²), that is quite a large variation. 🙄
I’m also interested in cost estimates (experience-based?) for an external stairwell spanning the floors "basement," "ground floor," "upper floor," plus "penthouse," including an external elevator located within the stairwell shaft. The stairwell does not need to be insulated. I’m imagining roughly a 3.5 x 3.5 m (11.5 x 11.5 ft) tower, externally glazed, made of galvanized steel.
I’m also interested in cost estimates (experience-based?) for an external stairwell spanning the floors "basement," "ground floor," "upper floor," plus "penthouse," including an external elevator located within the stairwell shaft. The stairwell does not need to be insulated. I’m imagining roughly a 3.5 x 3.5 m (11.5 x 11.5 ft) tower, externally glazed, made of galvanized steel.
M
Myrna_Loy23 Nov 2021 14:56i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
Does anyone have recent figures regarding construction costs for an office building? I’ve heard from one architect 2500€ per m² (2500€ per 10.8 sq ft), while the MEP planner claims a maximum of 2000€ per m² (2000€ per 10.8 sq ft). For approximately 330m² (3552 sq ft), that is a quite significant variation 🙄.
Additionally, I would be interested in costs (experience-based estimates?) for an exterior staircase spanning the floors "basement," "ground floor," "upper floor," plus "penthouse," including an external elevator located within the stairwell. The stairwell does not require insulation. I imagine a roughly 3.5 x 3.5m (11.5 x 11.5 ft) glazed tower made of galvanized steel. I work for a company that manages office buildings and plans renovations among other tasks. Costs have exploded over the last five years, driven by occupational safety regulations, ergonomic workplace requirements, and energy-saving regulations. A figure of 2000€ per m² (2000€ per 10.8 sq ft) is already on the low side. We had to renovate several offices for new leases to meet the requirements of regulations and client specifications. The COVID-19 pandemic has further disrupted existing concepts.
Turnaround... Seems like there’s still hope for my little gem 😎
After long discussions and back-and-forth calculations, it looks like the house will actually be sold after all. Demolition and rebuilding don’t make sense due to various restrictions. There’s simply no return on investment. However, the architect friend who briefly advised me on this — and his wife — have now expressed interest 🙂
They definitely have experience renovating old to very old houses, and in my opinion, their results have always been good so far.
Their first offer (after viewing) was below the bank’s initial valuation and also “slightly” below my asking price. Still, not completely out of range. The bank would only provide a more precise valuation after a preliminary building permit application, which would force me to sell exclusively through the bank. I actually don’t want that. In addition, only the investor target group aiming for “demolition + rebuild” would be addressed, and the outcome (sale price and timing) would be quite uncertain.
If I were to list the property online now, it would be the only one in the town (which lies in the commuter belt around Münster). There is literally zero supply here.
There is no comparable price due to the building year and condition. The architect estimates renovation costs at 70,000 euros (about $75,000), including a new roof and balcony made of galvanized steel, and presumably urgently needed interior work as well.
I tend to estimate the expenses higher, but it’s not my job to clarify that.
I think current asking price plus renovation costs and the existing or expected net rent would result in a higher possible sale price with an attractive return on investment. But I’m not sure if a first offer about 20% below the asking price is common (that is, whether he will add the roughly 20% I’d like). Also, whether this sort of “reverse calculation” should/can/may be done?
At this point, I don’t want to start an open bidding process since I’m in no rush. I definitely don’t want to “burn” the property. Whether I sell now or next year doesn’t really matter to me. Price increases are not exactly ruled out 😉 and I still get full rent for the house until probably autumn this year. But once I’ve decided to sell, I’d like to get it over with.
How do I now determine a reasonable price? I’ve worked through the 29-page “House Selling Strategy” document but unfortunately couldn’t find a clear answer for myself. Also, on @11ant’s homepage, I didn’t find a clear approach for my property 🙄
Any ideas?
After long discussions and back-and-forth calculations, it looks like the house will actually be sold after all. Demolition and rebuilding don’t make sense due to various restrictions. There’s simply no return on investment. However, the architect friend who briefly advised me on this — and his wife — have now expressed interest 🙂
They definitely have experience renovating old to very old houses, and in my opinion, their results have always been good so far.
Their first offer (after viewing) was below the bank’s initial valuation and also “slightly” below my asking price. Still, not completely out of range. The bank would only provide a more precise valuation after a preliminary building permit application, which would force me to sell exclusively through the bank. I actually don’t want that. In addition, only the investor target group aiming for “demolition + rebuild” would be addressed, and the outcome (sale price and timing) would be quite uncertain.
If I were to list the property online now, it would be the only one in the town (which lies in the commuter belt around Münster). There is literally zero supply here.
There is no comparable price due to the building year and condition. The architect estimates renovation costs at 70,000 euros (about $75,000), including a new roof and balcony made of galvanized steel, and presumably urgently needed interior work as well.
I tend to estimate the expenses higher, but it’s not my job to clarify that.
I think current asking price plus renovation costs and the existing or expected net rent would result in a higher possible sale price with an attractive return on investment. But I’m not sure if a first offer about 20% below the asking price is common (that is, whether he will add the roughly 20% I’d like). Also, whether this sort of “reverse calculation” should/can/may be done?
At this point, I don’t want to start an open bidding process since I’m in no rush. I definitely don’t want to “burn” the property. Whether I sell now or next year doesn’t really matter to me. Price increases are not exactly ruled out 😉 and I still get full rent for the house until probably autumn this year. But once I’ve decided to sell, I’d like to get it over with.
How do I now determine a reasonable price? I’ve worked through the 29-page “House Selling Strategy” document but unfortunately couldn’t find a clear answer for myself. Also, on @11ant’s homepage, I didn’t find a clear approach for my property 🙄
Any ideas?
i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
I also didn’t find a clear procedure for my project on @11ant’s homepage.Compared to the specific case of a gem of a property, my information offering is relatively mainstream ... but anyone who has found their way there also knows how to reach me ;-)https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
A quick update and a question:
The house is now sold (at least the price has been agreed upon and the sale confirmed with a handshake).
The handover of keys and payment is planned for December / January, once our office has been completely moved out/relocated and the house can be handed over in a clean condition.
However, the notary contract is supposed to be signed beforehand.
In your opinion, what are the key things I should pay special attention to?
Who chooses the notary? (Is it better if I do?)
Who pays the notary fees? (Split 50/50?)
It is an old house with many minor and major defects.
How can this be documented so the buyer cannot later come back with hidden defects?
And so on.
The house is now sold (at least the price has been agreed upon and the sale confirmed with a handshake).
The handover of keys and payment is planned for December / January, once our office has been completely moved out/relocated and the house can be handed over in a clean condition.
However, the notary contract is supposed to be signed beforehand.
In your opinion, what are the key things I should pay special attention to?
Who chooses the notary? (Is it better if I do?)
Who pays the notary fees? (Split 50/50?)
It is an old house with many minor and major defects.
How can this be documented so the buyer cannot later come back with hidden defects?
And so on.
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